[BO] Da Big 'Un

[Nefarian78]

Issues:

1- It doesn't serve any purpose at all.

Big 'Un main use is to apply "Da Biggest" Stat steal, but Big Swing already fills that role and does it way better. Big Swing has 30ft range, hits all enemies around you and also applies a 75STR debuff, While Da Big 'Un has 25ft range and it's a cone/shockwave that only hits enemies in front of you. The same applies to Waaaagh!, which deals corp damage which is harder to counter, reduces corp resist and has the same range as Big Swing.

2- It's damage is way, way too low.

Da Big 'Un is the 2h BO signature skill and the only one it has, and yet the damage it deals it's so low that it's completely irrelevant, the damage goes from 100 to 350 depending on target with Offensive sets. any AoE heal skill/HoT will outheal the damage at least 2 times.

3- Doesn't have a place in any 2h build.

In ANY 2h build you're never going to even think about using Da Big 'Un. If you're running a single target build you're going to focus on applying/refreshing Skull Thumper, dealing damage with T'ree Hit Combo or stunning/silencing with Down Ya go/Shut yer Face. Instead if you're using a Boss aoe-debuff build you're going to spend your Best Plan on Waaaaaagh! and not on Big 'Un. All those skills require Da Best Plan, there's no space for Big 'Un.

4- Big Swing high Ap cost makes it impossible to keep up your sustained aoe dmg rotation in WBs.

The only chance of ever using Da Big 'Un is during WB fights spamming AoEs but only reaching Gud Plan costs 30-35AP (depending on what Gud Plan builder you use) and another 50AP for Big Swing to reach Da Best Plan. That's 80-85 AP for 1 rotation. Using Changing Da Plan helps, but it's nowhere near enough to make a 2h BO attractive in a WB.

Solutions:

1- Change damage to corporeal and add a Parry or D/D buff.

One of the main reasons that 2h BOs are weak it's because using a 2h just nerfs your defensives without increasing your offensive side. Adding a Parry or a D/D buff tries to fill the gaps of losing a shield, While making Big 'Un deal corp damage not only increase it's damage by a little bit but also makes it combo a little better with WAAAAAGH!. If this is considered too much, adding a 5s could help balance the skill a bit.

2- Change damage to corporeal and increase it's damage.

As i've stated before the skill deals negligible damage and increasing its damage is a good way to make the skill more attractive. Corp damage for comboing with Waaagh! better.

3- Reduce damage taken from Guard for each enemy hit.

Going 2h on a tank doesn't mean you're going to completely discard your role and only go into tunnelvision mode only hitting stuff, Guarding is still a huge part of your role too. Adding a stacking buff that reduces the damage you take from guard for each enemy hit could potentially make 2h BOs a good choice in WBs, while not being OP in Scs/smallscale pvp (if tuned correctly). It also rewards good positioning and good movements to min-max the damage reduction you get. each enemy hit stacks the buff by 1%, capping at maybe 10-20%. Lasts 10s. If possible to create a buff like that is pretty strong and Big Un needs a medium cd to balance it out (15s maybe?)

[Penril]

Moving to discussions.

[dansari]

1: My preferred change. I don't play a BO but giving 2h BO some love defensively would be beneficial imo. A parry buff sounds fair.

2: Ehh, an increase in damage just because? 2h BO can already deal a load of damage.

3. Would be way too OP for warband play imo.

[GodlessCrom]

I like 1 the best. 2h BO already hits really hard, 2 is unnecessary. 3 sounds a bit too finicky and also the most powerful tanking skill ever created. All other tanks have access to a parry buff (even knight, through the WS buff from Runefang, though kinda doesnt count as is only soft parry) so why not BO?

[Foomy44]

if this is considered too much, adding a 5s could help balance the skill a bit.

Please no, whatever happens don't make it strong enough to require a CD, some of us like the way it interacts with Bring 'Em On, which also helps solve the AP issues you describe.

[Acidic]

I think solution 1 is reasonable (without the cool down) that would just make things clunkier , especially after last change added real issues with the cool down when using big brawling.
The other seem a bit off track and/or a bit much.

Party and some damage on this would make 2H more viable.

[Nefarian78]

3 sounds a bit too finicky and also the most powerful tanking skill ever created.

3. Would be way too OP for warband play imo.

I admit that this is the reaction i expected, but why do you think it's overpowered? a stacking buff that reduces guard dmg doesn't sound that op to the point of being the "most powerful tanking skill ever" or making 2h BOs mandatory in WBs. You're reducing damage you take by your guard by a % (based on how many targets you hit) but you still take the damage while avoiding the damage removes it entirely.

[footpatrol2]

Spoiler:

Issues:

1- It doesn't serve any purpose at all.

No it does serve a purpose and you stated it. It is a baseline stat steal extremely similar to pheonix wing from the SM. We get it for free where the SM has to spec into it. Your also comparing a 2nd step ability to a 3rd step ability, which due to how the BO's mechanic works is very different. If you need to keep up your proc's you go big swing then da big un. Since da big un is baseline you don't need to spec into it where Waaaagh you do.

2- It's damage is way, way too low.

The point of da big un is the stat steal. It doesn't have to hit hard to serve it's purpose. Try going a heavy weaponskill build to get your damage up if you want it to hit harder.

3- Doesn't have a place in any 2h build.

If your heavy brawler 2hnder spec with three hit you generally don't go waaaagh. Which mean's you lack a good AE stat stealer for a 3rd step. You have to be in melee range to apply 3 hit. You don't for da big un and you can still stat steal. That has value.

4- Big Swing high Ap cost makes it impossible to keep up your sustained aoe dmg rotation in WBs.

Not a big deal. The High ap was justified because you could slot in Big Brawlin tactic, the AoE snare + disorient. To counter you Ap drain the BO. The sidestep mechanic wasn't always part of the BO or SM.

I don't think da big un needs to be changed.

No cherry picking/omnislashing

[dansari]

3 sounds a bit too finicky and also the most powerful tanking skill ever created.

3. Would be way too OP for warband play imo.

I admit that this is the reaction i expected, but why do you think it's overpowered? a stacking buff that reduces guard dmg doesn't sound that op to the point of being the "most powerful tanking skill ever" or making 2h BOs mandatory in WBs. You're reducing damage you take by your guard by a % (based on how many targets you hit) but you still take the damage while avoiding the damage removes it entirely.

Is there any other skill in the game that allows you to stack a guard damage reduction? Guard damage is guard damage.. the only way you can decrease guard damage is to stack avoidance.

[Bozzax]

Beefing da bun may be problematic.

Consider a BO using guard together with high parry, loudmouth, best plan on parry build and spam waagh / da bun (filler)

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bo; ... :4470:4480: