The healing debate

[Ashoris]

Well wp can also slot a +20% heal more tactic on parry that should not be even there....
Yes destru may have other things still about raw heals order gona have more of it
So yes in order of "potenciality"of raw heal output with right tactics

-Wp ( can stack ALL the above heal increase source)
-Rune ( better kite potential and anti kd tactic)
-Zealot/dok (more or less)
-Am/Sham ( more or less)

Thats pretty short or ? i would say not even worth menitoning.

Because as soon as you start to put it in a live environment Healdebuffs matter!
and while the DoK can Grpcleanse ALL Order inc HDs (not to mention Morale cleanse) while the WP can't cleanse any inc HD.

So yes order have some abilities to push their potential heal volumes higher than destru, the reality is that Destru is far superior in preventing dmg and HD Removal.

I dont get the point to talk about healing output alone without context other than tryin to let something shine more than it actually is !

[Lileldys]

Well wp can also slot a +20% heal more tactic on parry that should not be even there....
Yes destru may have other things still about raw heals order gona have more of it
So yes in order of "potenciality"of raw heal output with right tactics

-Wp ( can stack ALL the above heal increase source)
-Rune ( better kite potential and anti kd tactic)
-Zealot/dok (more or less)
-Am/Sham ( more or less)

Thats pretty short or ? i would say not even worth menitoning.

Because as soon as you start to put it in a live environment Healdebuffs matter!
and while the DoK can Grpcleanse ALL Order inc HDs (not to mention Morale cleanse) while the WP can't cleanse any inc HD.

So yes order have some abilities to push their potential heal volumes higher than destru, the reality is that Destru is far superior in preventing dmg and HD Removal.

I dont get the point to talk about healing output alone without context other than tryin to let something shine more than it actually is !

This incorrect. DOK Cannot Cleanse WP INC healdebuff (I guess the WP is a bit of a strange pick though)
WP Can cleanse Choppa+DOK, so your point is disproven already.

Healing is fine across the board, except for Shamans whom are struggling with the lack of decent AP management.

WP/DoK - only plus for WP is 20% heal boost on defence, while DoK has better cleansing potential.
Zeal/RP - RP has AP Rune which is better for himself, while Zeal AP Rit gives mdps near infinite AP.

[Telen]

AM have far superior AP management with Drain being less reliable. That is enough to have switched them over in my mind.
So I put WP, AM and arguably RP all better than their mirrors as pure healers.

[bichka]

I would argue that the Shaman is a better healer than AM in so much as the Shaman has mobility tactics and can live through kiting. The AM only has the 60 second M1 Bubble on 60 second cooldown as protection. No mobility or auto-detaunt tactics.

Oh wait...

autodetaunt is only 25%
also shammy is not able to clean AM's debuffs. Including AP leech.

[Aebel]

With the new changes to Shammy/AM do you think Shammies are in a way better place now?

[Dankmeme]

With the new changes to Shammy/AM do you think Shammies are in a way better place now?

They are

[Lileldys]

With the new changes to Shammy/AM do you think Shammies are in a way better place now?

They are

I don't think they're quite there yet. It's quite rare in small scale to get a reliable big heal from the AoE lifetap.(When you do somehow hit 9people in a 20ft AoE, its amazing) Shaman still has its AP issues due to lack of Wild Healing.

Maybe if they add the AP Drain to the 20% Lifetap strikethrough, it might be decent.

[witchdoctor]

The heal ability's ar kind a even.

Shaman has autodetaunt and run, therefor AM has 50% less ap costs on heals with tactic. Thats oke

the WP tactic with 20% more heal is pretty awesome, specially because kotbs has 15% more heal for whole party,
as the only class in game. with additionaly AM buff or RP tactic which give +25% heal, you dont need to care that much about heal debuff.

a DOK with any tank in party has its 100% heal, WP has ~135% after defending (dodge disrupt parry).
Wasnt relevant earlier, but since DOK lost moral push long time ago, one could overthink that.

It's not a problem i have with, just wanted to throw it in

[Arconnn]

Order healers don't have a AP issue due to how RP ap rune works compared to destro (though Zealot is better in the long run for the group)
Order get a flat 15% healing buff from the Kobs
WP has exalted defenses (so beating out DoK in WB healing just by that)
Runepriest has Stoutness of Stone which is god tier in small scale against the whole stagger meta
AM has the option to run the Morale tactic which is obviously very nice in both small scale and Large scale

Zealot has a crazy good M1 to be able to kill someone in 6man
Zealot's AP rune is crazy good for tanks / Mdps effectively making their AP issues non existent no matter how many AP drains are run from order, but on the other hand its worthless for the healers and you'll be getting no AP from the rune

DoK has a very nice m2 alternative
DoK has unbelievably better covenants

Shaman has AP issues due to the Zealot AP buff not working for him (though not anymore since Lifetap heals are back)
Shaman has a double detaunt (the tactic and the actual normal detaunt which stack) which makes the shaman effectively the most tanky healer by a huge distance
it has a very nice morale boost for the whole party, which you can add upon to get double the morale with another tactic
Shaman has Run Away tactic which is arguably the best tactic in the game for Survivability
Has an extra HoT that gives a nice amount of toughness


So in my experience, order has better healing output due to better AP management and flat 15% heal buff from Kobs (and Exalted defenses for WB play) and are able to dictate the "Stagger wars" a lot better
but Destro bring way more to the table for the group in terms of infinite AP for tanks / Mdps, a very strong m1 on zealot, better covenants and a m2 alternative which can be used to counter some comps, and shaman who is unkillable or as close as you can get to it, passive morale pumps for your whole party

[dansari]

Spoiler:

Order healers don't have a AP issue due to how RP ap rune works compared to destro (though Zealot is better in the long run for the group)
Order get a flat 15% healing buff from the Kobs
WP has exalted defenses (so beating out DoK in WB healing just by that)
Runepriest has Stoutness of Stone which is god tier in small scale against the whole stagger meta
AM has the option to run the Morale tactic which is obviously very nice in both small scale and Large scale

Zealot has a crazy good M1 to be able to kill someone in 6man
Zealot's AP rune is crazy good for tanks / Mdps effectively making their AP issues non existent no matter how many AP drains are run from order, but on the other hand its worthless for the healers and you'll be getting no AP from the rune

DoK has a very nice m2 alternative
DoK has unbelievably better covenants

Shaman has AP issues due to the Zealot AP buff not working for him (though not anymore since Lifetap heals are back)
Shaman has a double detaunt (the tactic and the actual normal detaunt which stack) which makes the shaman effectively the most tanky healer by a huge distance
it has a very nice morale boost for the whole party, which you can add upon to get double the morale with another tactic
Shaman has Run Away tactic which is arguably the best tactic in the game for Survivability
Has an extra HoT that gives a nice amount of toughness


So in my experience, order has better healing output due to better AP management and flat 15% heal buff from Kobs (and Exalted defenses for WB play) and are able to dictate the "Stagger wars" a lot better
but Destro bring way more to the table for the group in terms of infinite AP for tanks / Mdps, a very strong m1 on zealot, better covenants and a m2 alternative which can be used to counter some comps, and shaman who is unkillable or as close as you can get to it, passive morale pumps for your whole party

This is a pretty good summation, except I'll add that in bombing situations when your healers are 30-40ft from the frontline, it doesn't matter if zeal AP ritual doesn't work off healing, you just aoe the frontline and get massive AP back, then keep healing.