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City Winner History?

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Elemint
Posts: 152

Re: City Winner History?

Post#541 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:40 pm

Kwatchi wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:30 pm
We have beaten all but FMJ
Big doubts.
Kwatchi wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:30 pm
Two weeks ago, on the same day I got my second forum strike, someone on the team who will remain nameless publicly referred to Order as a "dumpster fire".
The dev was right. Finding 24 competent people is the real challenge on order.
Last edited by Elemint on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dether
Posts: 31

Re: City Winner History?

Post#542 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 pm

I thought order cant beat destro , at least thats what this thread turning into.
Also boycott a city should be the way you play the game. Not let enemies win everything just for a few medals to get that shiny sov then roll another char and repeat.

This is a pure pvp game not a grind fiesta mmo , not sure why someone would pick warhammer to grind gear on 10+ char and dont focus on pvp and trying to get some proper fights.

Also 9 out 10 cities are stomps and unbalanced skill wise so i doubt anyone founds them fun except those few rare occasions.

Imagine if people were focused on dying enemy wins or trying to get out in lakes with the only thing in their mind to beat those destro and not if we get to city before its late and guild event is over

There are issues with balance no one denies that but its not but its not the core issue of the current situation , also each faction got a different play style and so far destro play style attract more players for obvious reasons

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sjemen
Posts: 31
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Re: City Winner History?

Post#543 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:51 pm

dether wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 pm
This is a pure pvp game not a grind fiesta mmo , not sure why someone would pick warhammer to grind gear on 10+ char and dont focus on pvp and trying to get some proper fights.
because no one actually want's competition in the game. just rush through the campaign, do a city, repeat.

pretty sad.
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shmemz rr66 SH sjemz rr62 SHAM sjemppa rr45 BO

heyo!

TreefAM
Posts: 261

Re: City Winner History?

Post#544 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:13 pm

I doesn't even have to be competition, roaming the lakes and fighting groups bigger than yours, or flanking an ongoing fights is probably the best thing in this nonsense game.

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 143

Re: City Winner History?

Post#545 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:02 pm

This thread gets a lot of attention right before or right after a city, but it's always the same nonsense.
gorbane - choppa

dether
Posts: 31

Re: City Winner History?

Post#546 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:09 pm

Cause before city is fine and everyone wins here and there, then suddenly people feel that are forced to play in a way they dislike

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CeeJay89
Posts: 139

Re: City Winner History?

Post#547 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:40 pm

dether wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 pm

There are issues with balance no one denies that but its not but its not the core issue of the current situation , also each faction got a different play style and so far destro play style attract more players for obvious reasons
It attracts more people because it's easier. Destro has been given so many powerful build options, tweaks, etc., and every "bug fix" has a net greater benefit to Destro than it does to Order. Any criticism of said imbalance is met with "git gud; destro players stronk".

The game was never perfectly balanced, but the QoL options given to Destro (pounce, pulls, damage, and movement buffs on every melee option) have greatly disadvantaged order over the long term. Deny it all you want; no sweat off my pole. Things that were powerful and unique to order were copy pasted to destro classes without total consideration to just how well it would synergize with destro unique abilities, and the lack of counters order has that Destro does have.

The excuse that "order has better healing" is so blown out of proportion and overrated with the power creep going on these days that it's silly. Rampage is the only very powerful, not overrated, order unique ability, and with the amount of whining you hear about it, I imagine it's only a matter of time.

Also, nobody likes order tanks, not because of the way they look (despite popular belief), it's simply that a) Destro has better melee classes as a whole, which pair with tanks and b) destro tanks do bruiser builds better... which are more fun than pure tanking and the ostracized dps tank.

Order excels at ranged combat, which is great for soloing during sieges, which are the only meaningful part of the campaign right now due to the current mechanics favoring zerging up, which means that numbers almost always matter more than gear or skill once high enough pre-siege. But the most powerful equipment by a huge margin is locked behind a mode that favors melee and class synergy. There is no alternative except maybe thousands of hours of winning forts/end zones. However, because sieges occur more often than anything else, it's natural for players who like to roam/solo to flock to order, despite the game being a team game.

Personally, I hate cities. I think they're boring, win or lose. I dread the hour I have to waste (because I'm not having fun) to get the crests I need to be relevant even in the content I do enjoy and to play the way I want to play.

Lastly, this idea that Order just needs to suck it up and play classes they don't like so that they can win, instead of fixing the core issue, is asinine. It's a game. Win or lose, I know I'm going to play the way I want and enjoy, or I'll do something else instead. The numbers are showing others doing the same.

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Arbich
Posts: 646

Re: City Winner History?

Post#548 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:13 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:02 pm
This thread gets a lot of attention right before or right after a city, but it's always the same nonsense.
What do you mean with nonsense? Could you please exercise it on one post in this thread. It would really help to give valuable feedback.

Take this post:
teiloh wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:09 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:55 pm
I'll bite, since I brought up the healing advantage and I need to examine my own biases.

So you believe that Focused Mending, + ED is not indicative of a healing advantage for order? I know you touched on this above, but kind of want to recap. Why is that? Why is the combination of the knight aura and the "potential" increased healing from ED not equating to an actual healing advantage? It is because of the Chosen debuff? Is it because nobody runs FM/ED? I'm trying to wrap my head around the argument you are making, and I want to be objective about it.

What am I missing from my biased destro perspective that's not clicking for me is basically what I'm wondering.
I play a ton of healers. Healing output and effective healing depends on a lot more than your Willpower, Tooltip value, and modifiers.

It also depends heavily on your AP/Resource management, cooldowns and survivability. You can't heal if you're dead, set back, CCed, running for your life or starved of AP/RF. This is why DoKs regularly pump out equal or more healing than WPs despite not having access to FM/ED.

There is no healing advantage.

And that's before considering:

1. Destro heal debuffs are superior. RSH has greater range and more Ailments to key off of, WE outgoing procs non-stop and has a greater than 100% uptime, both Zealot and DoK have the offensive proc vs. RP alone (the least likely DPS there is), Chosen incoming debuff is more viable than Knight outgoing since auras are 30 feet and thus "layer" over a bomb geo-target better, BG version has no cooldown and better suits the role of the BG.

2. Destro cures are superior. Khaine's Withdrawal, enough said.

3. Destro cooldown decreasers are superior, and this compounds 1 and 2 and directly affects healing (Shaman FoDG, DoK KR)

4. Destro cooldown increasers are superior. A pouncing class with a 40ft cone is better for landing debuffs fast than a 30ft area on a squishy class. You'll see the Destro version up a full 2-4 seconds sooner than the Slayer version. Then BOs also have a single target version of this as if they weren't strong enough. Also, see 2. Destro can cure all Order incoming heal debuffs and CD decreasers with one M2.

5. Destro interrupts are superior. Magus is better than Engi and their AOE interrupt is instant. Marauder has a shorter CD, better targeted AOE interrupt core. Tons of non-immunity knocks (BO, mSH, Zealot).

As for Chosen, don't forget the build-time increase debuff. You can do the math of 1 vs 1.25s cast times or 2.5 vs. 3.1 cast times for WP/non-WP group heals, respectively. This is an Aura Chosen can slot because they don't need to run a shitty one called Stay Focused.
I think its decent (you can agree or disagree to some points), but I am eager to read why this is nonsense.

Maybe we have different definitions of nonsense? I say that the idea crosscut needs a buff is nonsense, but apparently the devs saw this different.
What does nonsense in your vocabulary means?
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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Charon
Posts: 187

Re: City Winner History?

Post#549 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:20 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:02 pm
This thread gets a lot of attention right before or right after a city, but it's always the same nonsense.
ehhhh...good night all. Have fun in Aldorf i guess
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Vandoles
Posts: 178

Re: City Winner History?

Post#550 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:17 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:02 pm
This thread gets a lot of attention right before or right after a city, but it's always the same nonsense.
Stomping is boring for both sides, might as well post.

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