Has Stealth Ever Been Done Well?

[deepruntramp]

Mythic themselves considered permastealth to be one of the major design failures of DAOC and quite intentionally kneecapped it in Warhammer. There are interviews that say as much.

Despite much wailing, rending of clothes, and gnashing of teeth, players adapted and the skilled thrived. Those that had used permastealth as a crutch for bad positioning and tactical decision making found other classes to play.

Sadly like a lot of Mythic’s very intentional design choices, RoR just knew better.

[Morradin]

1. Second. 1 Min Stealth is NOT that long. It is just enough to allow stealthed player to get in the best position possible to attack, and if need to, get away. Gives the stealther time to evaluate the conditions and if need be withdraw. This is the only fully working method for a stealther to increase survivability. Remember, the jump back ability can be negated by opponent cc, and sometimes does not work.

2. Third. Stealth is easily broken. From Chosen/KoBS auras, to any random aoe ability, damage or cc, can break stealth. More importantly, 4 points of RR put into INIT, and you can see stealthers most of the time. At least I do on my Magus, SW, Sham, and AM.

1. Only fully working method for a stealther to increase survivability? Poor melee classes, they can't stealth like you, can't jump away like you, and you have a better version of their charge (still facepalming from this "perfectly balanced" skill). Oh, and despite the fact that medium armor does offer a bit better protection, you are still better at surviving magic damage because of this 100% disrupt thing. No surviving tools indeed.

P.S. I'm not even talking about stealth regen abominations.

2. It's not easily broken - more like it's complete random. Sometimes the first hit does the thing. Sometimes you can see WE, hit her a few times, lose her, then see her again to hit her a few times more and lose her again(spamming aoe when you can't see her, obviously).

You realize that all your complaints about stealthers are a matter of opinion and can not be proven by any single one fact.

Better charge? How? From a 2 sec speed boost? Yes I know the stealther also goes invisible, but that does not help "charge" in any shape or form. I and many other stealthers prefer to keep that on standby for escape. The best charge a stealther has is to pop flee, and when they catch their prey pop two AP pots (1 from vendor and 1 from apothecary). You catch target and have AP to kill them.
100% disrupt? Not every stealther has that. Needs to be specced into and specialization points are best used for better things that actually help, like 50% heal debuff (or 50% armor debuff if you like making SnB tanks panic ) .

By far other mdps classes have it MUCH BETTER!
Pounce - WL
Pull -Mara, WL Engi and Magus
Self healing - Mara
Better damage - Slayer, Chop, Mara, WL
Better damage mitigation - Mara
Extra Melee tactic - Slayer, Mara, WL, Chop
Better Armor - Mara, WL

What do stealthers have? Stealth, and a 50% chance to jump away.

But Stealthers are OP. right?

[Avernus]

1. Only fully working method for a stealther to increase survivability? Poor melee classes, they can't stealth like you, can't jump away like you, and you have a better version of their charge (still facepalming from this "perfectly balanced" skill). Oh, and despite the fact that medium armor does offer a bit better protection, you are still better at surviving magic damage because of this 100% disrupt thing. No surviving tools indeed.

P.S. I'm not even talking about stealth regen abominations.

2. It's not easily broken - more like it's complete random. Sometimes the first hit does the thing. Sometimes you can see WE, hit her a few times, lose her, then see her again to hit her a few times more and lose her again(spamming aoe when you can't see her, obviously).

1. You realize that all your complaints about stealthers are a matter of opinion and can not be proven by any single one fact.

2. Better charge? How? From a 2 sec speed boost? Yes I know the stealther also goes invisible, but that does not help "charge" in any shape or form. I and many other stealthers prefer to keep that on standby for escape.
3. The best charge a stealther has is to pop flee, and when they catch their prey pop two AP pots (1 from vendor and 1 from apothecary). You catch target and have AP to kill them.
4. 100% disrupt? Not every stealther has that. Needs to be specced into and specialization points are best used for better things that actually help, like 50% heal debuff (or 50% armor debuff if you like making SnB tanks panic ) .

By far other mdps classes have it MUCH BETTER!
5.Pounce - WL
6.Pull -Mara, WL Engi and Magus
7.Self healing - Mara
8. Better damage - Slayer, Chop, Mara, WL
9. Better damage mitigation - Mara
10. Extra Melee tactic - Slayer, Mara, WL, Chop
11. Better Armor - Mara, WL

12. What do stealthers have? Stealth, and a 50% chance to jump away.

13. But Stealthers are OP. right?

1. At least try to read the text before saying something like that.
2. Sure, with thing you still can be cc by ST cc abilities while you running towards your target...oh wait, you can't. With this charge you still going be be hit by everything the enemy team wants to throw at you...nope, you just pop the ability and the enemy assist can go and...switch the target.

Indeed, it's often used to escape from the enemy (aka "i can try and kill you and if i fail then you can't kill me anyway" ability - sure, doesn't work in 100% cases - thanks for that at least)

Basically, it's nice ability, both as defencive tool or as offencive tool.
3. Yep, with this tools you are guarantied to catch every rdps who tries to kite you, with the exception of SW using guerilla training.
4. No comments, if RoR builder shows it right, this thing is right beside the mandatory +50% crit strength tactic, which means that you gonna pick it unless you are braindead or deftard (its hard to tell the difference though...)
5. Yes, pounce is a nice thing indeed.
6. Mara pull? Yes, disgusting.
WL pull? sure, just spend a tactic slot to make your stupid pet at least try to reach the target you appointed to him. What do you mean you don't want to waste your slot?! BTW it doesnt work without your pet (obviously). And it dies the moment something looks funny at him (or even just from aoe). Still useful thing though, but isn't that simple to use, unlike mara pull.
Engie/magus pull? Yeah, its sooo effective that everyone spams it...or not. Engies are still using this sometimes though, its not like order have any choice in oRVR anyways.
7. Yes, its disgusting.
8. Questionable. Unless you want to spam aoe.
9. Against physical damage, but yes.
10. Bughammer?
11. Sort of. Not gonna help you against magic or some classes with ".....your armor i gonna ignore it anyways abilities" (sounds familiar?)
12. First strike, chance to escape if needed. Nice chances in 1v1 if you are good, and you have a good chance to escape from targets that are too hard for you.
13. I never said that. I do not like them though, that's true.

[Morradin]

Spoiler:

1. Only fully working method for a stealther to increase survivability? Poor melee classes, they can't stealth like you, can't jump away like you, and you have a better version of their charge (still facepalming from this "perfectly balanced" skill). Oh, and despite the fact that medium armor does offer a bit better protection, you are still better at surviving magic damage because of this 100% disrupt thing. No surviving tools indeed.

P.S. I'm not even talking about stealth regen abominations.

2. It's not easily broken - more like it's complete random. Sometimes the first hit does the thing. Sometimes you can see WE, hit her a few times, lose her, then see her again to hit her a few times more and lose her again(spamming aoe when you can't see her, obviously).

1. You realize that all your complaints about stealthers are a matter of opinion and can not be proven by any single one fact.

2. Better charge? How? From a 2 sec speed boost? Yes I know the stealther also goes invisible, but that does not help "charge" in any shape or form. I and many other stealthers prefer to keep that on standby for escape.
3. The best charge a stealther has is to pop flee, and when they catch their prey pop two AP pots (1 from vendor and 1 from apothecary). You catch target and have AP to kill them.
4. 100% disrupt? Not every stealther has that. Needs to be specced into and specialization points are best used for better things that actually help, like 50% heal debuff (or 50% armor debuff if you like making SnB tanks panic ) .

By far other mdps classes have it MUCH BETTER!
5.Pounce - WL
6.Pull -Mara, WL Engi and Magus
7.Self healing - Mara
8. Better damage - Slayer, Chop, Mara, WL
9. Better damage mitigation - Mara
10. Extra Melee tactic - Slayer, Mara, WL, Chop
11. Better Armor - Mara, WL

12. What do stealthers have? Stealth, and a 50% chance to jump away.

13. But Stealthers are OP. right?

1. At least try to read the text before saying something like that.
2. Sure, with thing you still can be cc by ST cc abilities while you running towards your target...oh wait, you can't. With this charge you still going be be hit by everything the enemy team wants to throw at you...nope, you just pop the ability and the enemy assist can go and...switch the target.

Indeed, it's often used to escape from the enemy (aka "i can try and kill you and if i fail then you can't kill me anyway" ability - sure, doesn't work in 100% cases - thanks for that at least)

Basically, it's nice ability, both as defencive tool or as offencive tool.
3. Yep, with this tools you are guarantied to catch every rdps who tries to kite you, with the exception of SW using guerilla training.
4. No comments, if RoR builder shows it right, this thing is right beside the mandatory +50% crit strength tactic, which means that you gonna pick it unless you are braindead or deftard (its hard to tell the difference though...)
5. Yes, pounce is a nice thing indeed.
6. Mara pull? Yes, disgusting.
WL pull? sure, just spend a tactic slot to make your stupid pet at least try to reach the target you appointed to him. What do you mean you don't want to waste your slot?! BTW it doesnt work without your pet (obviously). And it dies the moment something looks funny at him (or even just from aoe). Still useful thing though, but isn't that simple to use, unlike mara pull.
Engie/magus pull? Yeah, its sooo effective that everyone spams it...or not. Engies are still using this sometimes though, its not like order have any choice in oRVR anyways.
7. Yes, its disgusting.
8. Questionable. Unless you want to spam aoe.
9. Against physical damage, but yes.
10. Bughammer?
11. Sort of. Not gonna help you against magic or some classes with ".....your armor i gonna ignore it anyways abilities" (sounds familiar?)
12. First strike, chance to escape if needed. Nice chances in 1v1 if you are good, and you have a good chance to escape from targets that are too hard for you.
13. I never said that. I do not like them though, that's true.

All your arguments are wrong. All you are doing is complaining that you can not kill stealthers all the time. And it bothers you that you that some get away. It is obvious you have never even played the class. I WISH it was as good as you paint it out to be.

Bye

<pops insta stealth>
<pops perma stealth>
<laughs .............. ?

[Avernus]

Spoiler:

1. You realize that all your complaints about stealthers are a matter of opinion and can not be proven by any single one fact.

2. Better charge? How? From a 2 sec speed boost? Yes I know the stealther also goes invisible, but that does not help "charge" in any shape or form. I and many other stealthers prefer to keep that on standby for escape.
3. The best charge a stealther has is to pop flee, and when they catch their prey pop two AP pots (1 from vendor and 1 from apothecary). You catch target and have AP to kill them.
4. 100% disrupt? Not every stealther has that. Needs to be specced into and specialization points are best used for better things that actually help, like 50% heal debuff (or 50% armor debuff if you like making SnB tanks panic ) .

By far other mdps classes have it MUCH BETTER!
5.Pounce - WL
6.Pull -Mara, WL Engi and Magus
7.Self healing - Mara
8. Better damage - Slayer, Chop, Mara, WL
9. Better damage mitigation - Mara
10. Extra Melee tactic - Slayer, Mara, WL, Chop
11. Better Armor - Mara, WL

12. What do stealthers have? Stealth, and a 50% chance to jump away.

13. But Stealthers are OP. right?

1. At least try to read the text before saying something like that.
2. Sure, with thing you still can be cc by ST cc abilities while you running towards your target...oh wait, you can't. With this charge you still going be be hit by everything the enemy team wants to throw at you...nope, you just pop the ability and the enemy assist can go and...switch the target.

Indeed, it's often used to escape from the enemy (aka "i can try and kill you and if i fail then you can't kill me anyway" ability - sure, doesn't work in 100% cases - thanks for that at least)

Basically, it's nice ability, both as defencive tool or as offencive tool.
3. Yep, with this tools you are guarantied to catch every rdps who tries to kite you, with the exception of SW using guerilla training.
4. No comments, if RoR builder shows it right, this thing is right beside the mandatory +50% crit strength tactic, which means that you gonna pick it unless you are braindead or deftard (its hard to tell the difference though...)
5. Yes, pounce is a nice thing indeed.
6. Mara pull? Yes, disgusting.
WL pull? sure, just spend a tactic slot to make your stupid pet at least try to reach the target you appointed to him. What do you mean you don't want to waste your slot?! BTW it doesnt work without your pet (obviously). And it dies the moment something looks funny at him (or even just from aoe). Still useful thing though, but isn't that simple to use, unlike mara pull.
Engie/magus pull? Yeah, its sooo effective that everyone spams it...or not. Engies are still using this sometimes though, its not like order have any choice in oRVR anyways.
7. Yes, its disgusting.
8. Questionable. Unless you want to spam aoe.
9. Against physical damage, but yes.
10. Bughammer?
11. Sort of. Not gonna help you against magic or some classes with ".....your armor i gonna ignore it anyways abilities" (sounds familiar?)
12. First strike, chance to escape if needed. Nice chances in 1v1 if you are good, and you have a good chance to escape from targets that are too hard for you.
13. I never said that. I do not like them though, that's true.

All your arguments are wrong. All you are doing is complaining that you can not kill stealthers all the time. And it bothers you that you that some get away. It is obvious you have never even played the class. I WISH it was as good as you paint it out to be.

Bye

<pops insta stealth>
<pops perma stealth>
<laughs .............. ?

Spoiler:

I learned to play this game on live where playing solo was not punished. I have being playing RoR (on and off) since it launched. In all that time I have joined a 2-2-2 group maybe ... four or five times, for a weekend sc event on RoR, and only 2 times on live.

I play SOLO...
I am not a very good player, skill wise.

On a weekend (Friday morning NA est to Sunday morning NA est) I will play an average of 3 to 4 hrs a day. On a lazy weekend or a weekend where I have other real world plans I put FOUR toons through the weekend scenario. Some weekends, especially in winter when there is nothing to do, I will go EIGHT toons. But mostly, just 4.

It is NOT that hard to do.

There you go. Since there is no arguments in your posts, you don't deserve anything better anyways.

[nat3s]

Stealth works ok in other games, WoW for instance. Stealth + burst / regen is the issue, not stealth in and of itself. Typically your thief/sneak/rogue type classes have been associated with burst, but I like the WoW rogue approach where it's a dot class (forget which spec).

[bloodaxe]

Stealth works ok in other games, WoW for instance. Stealth + burst / regen is the issue, not stealth in and of itself. Typically your thief/sneak/rogue type classes have been associated with burst, but I like the WoW rogue approach where it's a dot class (forget which spec).

In wow, You had a lot of counter play to stealth. I don't feel like I have the same options in this game. It feels frustrating to put dots on a stealth class, see them go invis and never see them again. I get WoW has Cloak of shadows (to remove all debuffs) + vanish (to go into stealth while in combat) but that has a hefty cooldown.

Maybe I just don't know all the way to counter stealth in RoR, and that is causing frustration. I should level a stealth class just too see how other players interact with me.