Wierd results on killing constructs (dummies with armor)

[Phantasm]

Sometimes i like to test different things on my characters, this time i looked closer to mSH, so:

• no crit mechanics,

• base dmg increase by All by Myself and Sneaky Bouncin

1st i spec full melee crit and STR: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s

Then i changed melee crit to full STR + WS and leftovers into parry: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;1;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s.

Its quite shocking to me that 14% melee crit doesnt make any difference. I know hitting single mob is not RvR representation but I thought extra 14% melee crit will make some difference.
What are your thoughts?

[Vaul]

Sometimes i like to test different things on my characters, this time i looked closer to mSH, so:

• no crit mechanics,

• base dmg increase by All by Myself and Sneaky Bouncin

1st i spec full melee crit and STR: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s

Then i changed melee crit to full STR + WS and leftovers into parry: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;1;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s.

Its quite shocking to me that 14% melee crit doesnt make any difference. I know hitting single mob is not RvR representation but I thought extra 14% melee crit will make some difference.
What are your thoughts?

but wasn't your test 14% crit versus +48 STR and + 72WS?

[Phantasm]

Sometimes i like to test different things on my characters, this time i looked closer to mSH, so:

• no crit mechanics,

• base dmg increase by All by Myself and Sneaky Bouncin

1st i spec full melee crit and STR: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s

Then i changed melee crit to full STR + WS and leftovers into parry: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;1;2;0;0;0

Time to kill construct: around 20s.

Its quite shocking to me that 14% melee crit doesnt make any difference. I know hitting single mob is not RvR representation but I thought extra 14% melee crit will make some difference.
What are your thoughts?

but wasn't your test 14% crit versus +48 STR and + 72WS?

In a fact yes, but gains of WS 72 and STR 48 compared to 14% crit more is minimal.

[BluIzLucky]

14% crit without crit dmg mods is roughly 7% dmg on average.

120 offensive stats (ws+str) could give you the same 7% dmg depending on class, skills and total stats.

Normally you'd consider 1% crit = 10 stat (varies), here you are trading at 8.6, so would be hard to notice a difference as it would only be around 0.2s faster with avg crit.
The kind of difference you'd probably need to run +1000 perfectly identical simulations to determine.

[Scottx125]

14% crit without crit dmg mods is roughly 7% dmg on average.

120 offensive stats (ws+str) could give you the same 7% dmg depending on class, skills and total stats.

Normally you'd consider 1% crit = 10 stat (varies), here you are trading at 8.6, so would be hard to notice a difference as it would only be around 0.2s faster with avg crit.
The kind of difference you'd probably need to run +1000 perfectly identical simulations to determine.

If the average crit damage for arguments sake is 1.4 x base damage. You then have to determine how much extra damage is done based off of your proc chance. So 14% crit chance is roughly about 5-6% damage increase. Big issue however is that it varies between 1.3-1.5. So crit can give more damage but it's a coinflip. And it's only really worth investing into IMO if 1, you have tactics that proc from it increasing your damage further or 2, you max out your main DPS stat.

It's also worth noting crit scales differently on different abilities. The 1% crit = 9 main stat is just for the bonus stat modifier. Each ability has it's own scaling. In general, crit works better on abilities that have multiple ticks/hits and on abilities that have worse main stat scaling.

[Phantasm]

Cunningham's Law is really working! Thanks guys for right info.

[paperclipdog]

The construct has 3500 armor which is more than most people you will face, further skewing results in favor of WS. In RvR, you will on average get more out of the 14% crit than the stats.

[Scottx125]

The construct has 3500 armor which is more than most people you will face, further skewing results in favor of WS. In RvR, you will on average get more out of the 14% crit than the stats.

Not necessarily. You can divide the player base into 3 groups. Below softcap, at softcap and above softcap. Most DPS in light armour are below at around 40-50% armour. Medium armour can reach the softcap with a pot. Tanks are at about 100% with a pot. If you only target squishy DPS in light armour then sure. But really you'll mostly be aiming to kill anything in light/medium armour and if you've got really high armour pen you can go after tanks. But regardless of that for any DPS, your stat priority is Main stat softcap, then decide a suitable amount of WS if you need it and as much crit afterwards as you can get.

My Engi for example despite the classes mobility and shortcomings with damage without it's turret aims to run at around 70% armour pen base. Meaning I can damage most targets at 100% damage. I've then got my extra 25% pen ability for tanks if I want to kill them.

Edit - In this case, WS isn't just about armour pen, as a melee SH you also get parry.

[paperclipdog]

But really you'll mostly be aiming to kill anything in light/medium armour and if you've got really high armour pen you can go after tanks. But regardless of that for any DPS, your stat priority is Main stat softcap, then decide a suitable amount of WS if you need it and as much crit afterwards as you can get.

Tanks have toughness, you're never going after tanks, they are collateral while you kill their dps or healers and mostly die from guard dmg which doesn't take their armor into account. Most order dps are slayers who will be yellow & red a considerable amount of time, thus being below 75%. Brighties and Engis never reach those numbers and others only in SOV.

That leaves us with healers, who also only reach these numbers in SOV with a 8xx pot and if his dmg with 14% = the stats, he will thus obviously get more out of crit than the stats.

Parry isn't huge, squigs are super mobile. Just don't facetank it.

Edit:

Your turret reduces armor by 1k-something doesn't it? 70% armor pen sounds like overkill

[Zxul]

But regardless of that for any DPS, your stat priority is Main stat softcap, then decide a suitable amount of WS if you need it and as much crit afterwards as you can get.

Depends actually, WE/WH and if I remember right several other classes have tactics which increase the % of armor penetration gained from WS (for example- Bleeding Edge tactic increases it by +50%), making increasing WS more effective than increasing str (once you have some minimal amount).

Then several classes have bad str scaling on abilities, while WS scales the same for all classes.

Then also when you have a sufficient amount of armor to deal with, extra WS will give you a higher gain in dmg than extra str.

Also crit isn't necessarily the best route- FS means part of your crit will always add 0 dmg, while other sources of dmg (str/WS/extra procs/aa haste/etc) will always add extra dmg. Question is if you have an extra crit dmg tactic, or things going off crit, to make it worth it, and how much dmg those add on your targets compared to using the tactic slots for something else.