Covenant of Celerity - how does it work?

[Paxsanarion]

I never said it was a good idea in the first place so I don’t think I need to remind you. I’m simply stating how used and abused could be used and abused. Last I checked AOE heals and single target heals go to 100 feet and beyond. You do not need to be right next to your healer to dps just keep line of sight and react to any danger to healer

Dok group heal is 100 feet, and was never beyond this range no matter when did you check. Dok single heals are 150 feet, however they indeed require los, which is most zones very much isn't guaranteed at 95 feet+.

So in other words you are complaining that if a sorcerer (a cloth class with no defenses to speak of, and which as an extra bonus tends to self explode) is stupid enough to be 95 feet away from his healer, he might snare someone there?

Go back and read my posts and please don’t turn this into some sort of drama thread. You are missing the point entirely. It could be any class as long as there’s a Dok in the party running this …. it’s not so much about a single character it’s any character that’s in a party with this covenant can snare for nine seconds. It adds up and depending on the party composition, you could be talking about a lot of snaring. All you have to do is be damaging someone it could be anywhere from range to short range. I just gave you an extreme example of what could happen, as far as range is concerned.

I’m looking at the big picture and imagining organized war bands using this covenant In a coordinated fashion to create a mass snaring effect not just on one person, but any number of people without limit by using various AOE damage, both long and short range. Theoretically you could effectively with a 20% chance snare an entire warband for 9 seconds.

Now picture this happening in conjunction with any number of other abilities while the enemy is slowed to that degree. Anyway, I feel like I’ve made my point I won’t be replying to this thread anymore. Too many times, they degenerate into personal attacks and rampage verus whatever threads that endlessly go nowhere after being derailed by people who just like drama.

[Bozzax]

The problem is that you imply this holds significance and it is a new discovery but it isn’t

Very little would change if ithe snare was removed

[Zxul]

Go back and read my posts and please don’t turn this into some sort of drama thread. You are missing the point entirely. It could be any class as long as there’s a Dok in the party running this …. it’s not so much about a single character it’s any character that’s in a party with this covenant can snare for nine seconds. It adds up and depending on the party composition, you could be talking about a lot of snaring. All you have to do is be damaging someone it could be anywhere from range to short range. I just gave you an extreme example of what could happen, as far as range is concerned.

Ahh, so once confronted with an actual facts, that 195 feet range snare idea disappeared, got you.

I’m looking at the big picture and imagining organized war bands using this covenant In a coordinated fashion to create a mass snaring effect not just on one person, but any number of people without limit by using various AOE damage, both long and short range. Theoretically you could effectively with a 20% chance snare an entire warband for 9 seconds.

Now picture this happening in conjunction with any number of other abilities while the enemy is slowed to that degree. Anyway, I feel like I’ve made my point I won’t be replying to this thread anymore. Too many times, they degenerate into personal attacks and rampage verus whatever threads that endlessly go nowhere after being derailed by people who just like drama.

Will you mind telling which "various AOE damage" are you actually talking about, instead of putting general statements with no actual meaning behind? The sorc aoe abilities, which are either melee range (Disastrous Cascade), or have 3 sec cast time (Shattered Shadows) meaning cloth class standing 3 sec without moving next to frontline (since range to order wb + range to target something except tanks and 20 feet around them)? Or choppa aoe abilities, which are short range, and which are interestingly enough get parried/blocked by tanks since unlike order destro doesn't has Rampage?

"Now picture this happening in conjunction with any number of other abilities"- mind explaining what this even means?

[Absinth]

Both sides have the much more potent snare puddle so aoe snaring from 100 feet range happens all the time regardless of side you play. Describing snare covenant as a 195 feet snare is just wrong. It is a proc and limited to the range between the attacker and its target.

Ok ….. if I am a sorcerer and I am standing 95 feet away from a DOK that has this aura activated and I have the aura active on me and I cast a spell. It goes 100 feet from me to an enemy target that’s 195 feet, if that happens to be an AOE type spell, then you have a 20% chance to snare a target 195 feet away from you for nine seconds. The only thing I don’t know is if it affects everybody that is damaged by your AOE or just your actual target .

And that goes for anyone and everyone in the Doks party including magus who in single target spec can cast even farther. So there’s lots of potential for coordinated snaring of anyone from long range to short range.

It has 20% (or 35% with a tactic) to snare one target, if there are more then one then every single target has 20% (or 35% with tactic) to get snared, think of it as if you had one d100 dice for every player and if it hits value equal or lower to 20 (or 35 if tactic is present) then it gets snared, for a single aoe cast targeted at 6man group you have 0.000064% chance to snare all of them, with potent covenants it gets up to 0.00184% and to put that in comparison to that the chance to snare 24 people being 40 feet away from you using Blackguards aoe snare is 100%, soo its 100% more safe and reliable to just have blackguard press the flee button, chug ap potion and click aoe snare. But yeah for the single target it can be quite nice if other classes did not already have ranged slows like we/wh and sw/sh heck even sorc/bw have ranged slow.

[lumpi33]

Both sides have the much more potent snare puddle so aoe snaring from 100 feet range happens all the time regardless of side you play. Describing snare covenant as a 195 feet snare is just wrong. It is a proc and limited to the range between the attacker and its target.

Ok ….. if I am a sorcerer and I am standing 95 feet away from a DOK that has this aura activated and I have the aura active on me and I cast a spell. It goes 100 feet from me to an enemy target that’s 195 feet, if that happens to be an AOE type spell, then you have a 20% chance to snare a target 195 feet away from you for nine seconds. The only thing I don’t know is if it affects everybody that is damaged by your AOE or just your actual target .

And that goes for anyone and everyone in the Doks party including magus who in single target spec can cast even farther. So there’s lots of potential for coordinated snaring of anyone from long range to short range.

It has 20% (or 35% with a tactic) to snare one target, if there are more then one then every single target has 20% (or 35% with tactic) to get snared, think of it as if you had one d100 dice for every player and if it hits value equal or lower to 20 (or 35 if tactic is present) then it gets snared, for a single aoe cast targeted at 6man group you have 0.000064% chance to snare all of them, with potent covenants it gets up to 0.00184% and to put that in comparison to that the chance to snare 24 people being 40 feet away from you using Blackguards aoe snare is 100%, soo its 100% more safe and reliable to just have blackguard press the flee button, chug ap potion and click aoe snare. But yeah for the single target it can be quite nice if other classes did not already have ranged slows like we/wh and sw/sh heck even sorc/bw have ranged slow.

Ridiculous downplay man. Fact is that every hit has a chance of 20% (35%) chance to snare the target. Even with only one melee hitting you with abilities and auto attacks you get the proc almost instant and it is refreshing itself. When there are multiple targets hitting you with that aura on then the snare is pretty much guaranteed, at any range. Fighting against a destro group with that aura running means you are perma snared during the fight when aoe is flying around. Even if they don't even target you.

It's very good and it is combined with the best dok aura -> the damage proc aura. If that were on an order class they would put it on a aura that is barely used, reduce the chance to 10%, the snare duration to 3s and put a stance requirement on it... Or put it on a tactic or just remove it without compensation. That's how balancing is being done atm.

See SWs ranged knock down that has been change from 100ft range 10s cooldown and 3s duration to 65ft duration, 15s cooldown, 2s duration, plus stance requirement, plus VoN requirement that has a 30s cooldown. All that while not touching the maras KD which is aoe, also 2s and is just a simple button press without stance requirement. Or the Dok aura that you just turn on like WPs but have the snare in addition for free. Or the dwarven tactic that has been changed from 50% reduced CC duration to -1s. Ridiculous. Who the f*** is doing the balancing? That's not fair in any way. And then destro player write posts here trying to argue and downplay it. lol...

If they would treat destro in the same harsh way as they do with order then they would reduce the mara aoe kd to 1s and put more stance and/or mutated aggressor requirement on it. And for the Dok aura, reduce it to 10% chance, 3s and put it on an aura that is not the main damage proc aura they run. Then it would be fair, but how they did it it was just a nerf swing against order while leaving all the goodies on the destro side untouched.

[Shima]

Besides I play dok, I recognize this aura is very OP if we talk about a nerf on pounce for example - that was no reasonable explanation for this - and leaving an aura with 35% (if using tactic) of proc that will give the part a passive snare ability. Imo, Warrior Priest should have this aura too, or this aura should be nerfed to become similar to WP's aura.

[Nameless]

It makes enemy job to disengage harder, thats all. When the fight is over and destro clean up it is harder to run off. But for that main problems were (esp pre patch) maras and choppas. The proc nature of the slow benefits mainly melee attacks so when you got it most of the time you got higher slow on you.
It is not useless and got some value but you just over price it here.

[Alubert]

Besides I play dok, I recognize this aura is very OP if we talk about a nerf on pounce for example - that was no reasonable explanation for this - and leaving an aura with 35% (if using tactic) of proc that will give the part a passive snare ability. Imo, Warrior Priest should have this aura too, or this aura should be nerfed to become similar to WP's aura.

Do you really look at one skill and immediately want the same in a counterpart on the order side? Really? How about looking at the class as a whole?
Why can't DOK have a better convenant than wp?
WP has 20% better heal tactic + 15% from KTB. Excellent m1.
In that case you would give that up for DOK too?

[Sapblatter]

Can't we just close threads like this,there is no longer any constructive discussions coming from this but just a load of pointless drama and with people thinking the grass is always greener on the other side.

Instead of making post like this, why don't you contact one of the three class balancing people and talk to them about the issue, if they share the same view as you im sure something will happen but instead you get a post here with missinfomated people trying to balance a game on what they think is a good idea.

I guess this is just the next destro hate skill, first was shamans tactics, then gtdc, then rsh, now doks covenant and i wonder what the next one will be.

Classes are closely mirrored but slight changes to have the game have flavor, there's stuff order has but destro doesn't and stuff destro have and order doesn't, just play to your strengths and adapt and overcome the issues.

[leftayparxoun]

I believe you are misunderstanding the nature of the last update;
The main focus was on equalizing snares, not balancing everything in the game.
In terms of snares:

Ridiculous downplay man. Fact is that every hit has a chance of 20% (35%) chance to snare the target. Even with only one melee hitting you with abilities and auto attacks you get the proc almost instant and it is refreshing itself. When there are multiple targets hitting you with that aura on then the snare is pretty much guaranteed, at any range. Fighting against a destro group with that aura running means you are perma snared during the fight when aoe is flying around. Even if they don't even target you.

If you have a mdps hitting you then you already cannot get away. The rest of Destro will mount up and catch you while the mdps keeps you dismounted. CoC doesn't really change much here. If we are instead talking about walking/tactical retreat then the slow can always be cleansed by yourself (mdps/tanks) or by the healers running alongside you. Keep in mind it is also a 20% snare compared the 30% of most other AOE slows currently or the 40% ST one the mdps will have access to.

See SWs ranged knock down that has been change from 100ft range 10s cooldown and 3s duration to 65ft duration, 15s cooldown, 2s duration, plus stance requirement, plus VoN requirement that has a 30s cooldown. All that while not touching the maras KD which is aoe, also 2s and is just a simple button press without stance requirement. Or the Dok aura that you just turn on like WPs but have the snare in addition for free. Or the dwarven tactic that has been changed from 50% reduced CC duration to -1s. Ridiculous. Who the f*** is doing the balancing? That's not fair in any way. And then destro player write posts here trying to argue and downplay it. lol...

If they would treat destro in the same harsh way as they do with order then they would reduce the mara aoe kd to 1s and put more stance and/or mutated aggressor requirement on it. And for the Dok aura, reduce it to 10% chance, 3s and put it on an aura that is not the main damage proc aura they run. Then it would be fair, but how they did it it was just a nerf swing against order while leaving all the goodies on the destro side untouched.

As I said before, the main focus of the update was equalization of slows, not balance.
While I cannot know the reasoning behind the SW and the Dwarfen racial tactic nerfs by the balance team, the writing is on the wall;
Those were significantly overperforming, to the point where they were disruptive to the overall game balance.

It's no wonder most good players, when questioned, referred to the racial tactic as the best one in game and not many people really protested the nerf since ''it was long overdue''.

For SW, I believe we all saw the reaction from Destro side to their dominance in the lakes. Not sure if that reaction was warranted, or if the class was too good, but the reasoning behind the change seems to be that overperformance. ''Is it the perfect balance for the class?'' How could we know? The balance team needs time to assess the changes and adjust the class if needed on a proper balance patch. If anything, they haven't lost access to a ranged kd so the change is moderate enough for SWs to ''survive'' until proper balance.

Why didn't Mara's KD get nerfed? Why didn't the DOK covenant get nerfed? Simply because these were not disruptive enough to the game to warrant an urgent fix before the actual balance patches. ''Are they balanced?'' Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens to them in a proper balance patch.

Until then, please stop overreacting and try to adapt instead. We've all been doing that for the past 2+ years.