Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

[Detangler]

Wait til some of you realize a BG can slot another tactic to make the outgoing heal debuff 30 seconds long...

[what63]

Obviously busted. Most sensible solution is likely to apply the tactics value in stages, like the ability itself. For example 10-15% per stack (the effect combined with delivery method makes even the 50% potency figure questionable). Still strong on account of needing three cleanses to get back to full potential, but with a tangible downside to not getting all the stacks up.

[Wattser]

Playing my rSH, I use the 50% heal buff after an insta cast ailment, so to my knowledge even with cleanse it will take 2 to get it off and I can apply it just as fast.

Sidebar- Does cleanse work on FIFO? (first in first out) priority or does it do the most recent?

[Zxul]

Playing my rSH, I use the 50% heal buff after an insta cast ailment, so to my knowledge even with cleanse it will take 2 to get it off and I can apply it just as fast.

Sidebar- Does cleanse work on FIFO? (first in first out) priority or does it do the most recent?

They get removed in same order as applied- so if you applied dot followed by heal debuff, dot will be cleansed first, then the heal debuff.

So yep if you apply say 2 dots followed by a heal debuff, it will take a healer with 5 sec cd cleanse 10 sec before he can cleanse the heal debuff.

[what63]

Playing my rSH, I use the 50% heal buff after an insta cast ailment, so to my knowledge even with cleanse it will take 2 to get it off and I can apply it just as fast.

Sidebar- Does cleanse work on FIFO? (first in first out) priority or does it do the most recent?

SH has the other type of healdebuff, the distinction matters to some degree. The main difference, aside from SH having to apply one additional DoT to get the same cover, is that for SH to refresh those DoTs, it needs multiple GCDs- in the case of BG, once they are on it only takes one GCD to refresh the full stack. In addition, for as long as other healdebuffs, outgoing and incoming, are being cleansed and in need of active reapplication, they often have a certain degree of downtime. The BG one has padding against that aswell, if all covering dots get cleansed, the BG still has the ability to continuously keep up the healdebuff despite multiple cleansers being on the target, as it is a single ability covering for itself at full potency.

[Ashoris]

WL needs to invest here 14 Mastery points to get the same effect which lasts only 10 secs without the additionall willpower debuff and a cooldown of 10 sec.

Or WL can just slot axe with built in heal debuff and go unga bunga with AOE spreading heal debuff on everyone.

Aoe Heal debuffs were removed and this Particular hurts Destro because DoK heal debuff was too good and bugged, so it procced from 24s dot and it should only proc from direct hits. Even after this was fixed it still was super powerful because 150 ft Devour Essence meant you can insta heal ally from 0 to 100 fast and at the same time Heal debuff them! Now this is gone RIP;/ Order only 25% Heal debuff proc is probably not a good idea either: D 2h Wp, Wl, IB and 2h slayer can have this proc on wpn. Destro has 0 or can choppa use one? If can why the fudge cant blorc use that same wpn like ib/slayer. And this 25% incoming healdebuff stacks to 75% With out/incoming HD Anyway all Order classes that can use 2h with this proc also have Heal debuff that stacks to 75% on healer class. And that is very powerful, if not and it doesnt matter why would it matter if procs in wpns were not gatekeeped?

the topic is about OUTGOING HD .....
Either you want to derail the conversation with the Weapon Proc for 25% INCOMING HD (btw the Chosen has it as a 100% uptime Aura) or you do not understand the difference

Please STOP

[Zxul]

Anyway, what OP is forgetting is the cleanse order, and the GCD. For bg to apply 3 * Mind Killer it takes 3 gcds, or 4.5 sec. Now lets compare it with ib- if ib applies 2 debuffs/dots followed by Inspiring Attack, since debuffs/dots are cleansed in same order as they are applied, its just as hard to cleanse the actual heal debuff as bg's one.

And should the ib want to reapply it immediately, Inspiring Attack is 1 GCD, 2 debuffs/dots are 2 GCDs, total 4.5 sec while cd on Inspiring Attack is 5 sec- in other words the only downtime if ib wants to just keep hard to cleanse heal debuff on healer is 0.5 sec.

Not to mention that 40 will debuff of Mind Killer is worse than pretty much anything else that a bg could put in there, even stacked *3, so realistically for bg its better to cover the heal debuff with something else to not waste GCDs.

[what63]

Anyway, what OP is forgetting is the cleanse order, and the GCD. For bg to apply 3 * Mind Killer it takes 3 gcds, or 4.5 sec. Now lets compare it with ib- if ib applies 2 debuffs/dots followed by Inspiring Attack, since debuffs/dots are cleansed in same order as they are applied, its just as hard to cleanse the actual heal debuff as bg's one.

And should the ib want to reapply it immediately, Inspiring Attack is 1 GCD, 2 debuffs/dots are 2 GCDs, total 4.5 sec while cd on Inspiring Attack is 5 sec- in other words the only downtime if ib wants to just keep hard to cleanse heal debuff on healer is 0.5 sec.

Not to mention that 40 will debuff of Mind Killer is worse than pretty much anything else that a bg could put in there, even stacked *3, so realistically for bg its better to cover the heal debuff with something else to not waste GCDs.

Ugh, another apples to oranges. Initial application takes the same amount of GCDs. But when things come to refreshing, BG spends one GCD for a three, which is absolutely huge. Taking into account the presence of additional sources of cover aswell makes it even worse, as any new application of the debuff will land it at the BACK of the FIFO queue again, while maintaing the amount of cleanses needed for the ability itself once it finally reaches the front again, which in itself is also huge. It is not in any way comparable to a non-stacking debuff covered by two other non-stacking debuffs.

[Zxul]

Anyway, what OP is forgetting is the cleanse order, and the GCD. For bg to apply 3 * Mind Killer it takes 3 gcds, or 4.5 sec. Now lets compare it with ib- if ib applies 2 debuffs/dots followed by Inspiring Attack, since debuffs/dots are cleansed in same order as they are applied, its just as hard to cleanse the actual heal debuff as bg's one.

And should the ib want to reapply it immediately, Inspiring Attack is 1 GCD, 2 debuffs/dots are 2 GCDs, total 4.5 sec while cd on Inspiring Attack is 5 sec- in other words the only downtime if ib wants to just keep hard to cleanse heal debuff on healer is 0.5 sec.

Not to mention that 40 will debuff of Mind Killer is worse than pretty much anything else that a bg could put in there, even stacked *3, so realistically for bg its better to cover the heal debuff with something else to not waste GCDs.

Ugh, another apples to oranges. Initial application takes the same amount of GCDs. But when things come to refreshing, BG spends one GCD for a three, which is absolutely huge. Taking into account the presence of additional sources of cover aswell makes it even worse, as any new application of the debuff will land it at the BACK of the FIFO queue again, while maintaing the amount of cleanses needed for the ability itself once it finally reaches the front again, which in itself is also huge. It is not in any way comparable to a non-stacking debuff covered by two other non-stacking debuffs.

Before I make a long react post- builder shows ib's heal debuff- Inspiring Attack- as damaging instead of ailment etc. Ain't going to roll an ib just to check- is it actually damaging, or is the builder wrong? Because if it's type is actually damaging, it can't be cleansed at all, in which case its the ib which actually needs nerfing.

[what63]

Anyway, what OP is forgetting is the cleanse order, and the GCD. For bg to apply 3 * Mind Killer it takes 3 gcds, or 4.5 sec. Now lets compare it with ib- if ib applies 2 debuffs/dots followed by Inspiring Attack, since debuffs/dots are cleansed in same order as they are applied, its just as hard to cleanse the actual heal debuff as bg's one.

And should the ib want to reapply it immediately, Inspiring Attack is 1 GCD, 2 debuffs/dots are 2 GCDs, total 4.5 sec while cd on Inspiring Attack is 5 sec- in other words the only downtime if ib wants to just keep hard to cleanse heal debuff on healer is 0.5 sec.

Not to mention that 40 will debuff of Mind Killer is worse than pretty much anything else that a bg could put in there, even stacked *3, so realistically for bg its better to cover the heal debuff with something else to not waste GCDs.

Ugh, another apples to oranges. Initial application takes the same amount of GCDs. But when things come to refreshing, BG spends one GCD for a three, which is absolutely huge. Taking into account the presence of additional sources of cover aswell makes it even worse, as any new application of the debuff will land it at the BACK of the FIFO queue again, while maintaing the amount of cleanses needed for the ability itself once it finally reaches the front again, which in itself is also huge. It is not in any way comparable to a non-stacking debuff covered by two other non-stacking debuffs.

Before I make a long react post- builder shows ib's heal debuff- Inspiring Attack- as damaging instead of ailment etc. Ain't going to roll an ib just to check- is it actually damaging, or is the builder wrong? Because if it's type is actually damaging, it can't be cleansed at all, in which case its the ib which actually needs nerfing.

It's just because the ability itself isn't a debuff, it's purely a buff. The tactic itself applies as a separate Curse. Or well, is supposed to, god knows if it actually does.