Runepriest vs Zealot vampire tactic RP bonus 10% disrupt bypass?

[Ruin]

Can some1 with knowledge ad in this thread haw the different weapon types works here?
Does Zeal receives 10% parry for dual wielding weapons, and is the RP 2h Weapon provides 10% parry strike threw or mages don't get that?

[Omegus]

blah blah blah

I've already explained it was a bug that was introduced with the ability rework and is currently on the bug tracker.

Can some1 with knowledge ad in this thread haw the different weapon types works here?
Does Zeal receives 10% parry for dual wielding weapons, and is the RP 2h Weapon provides 10% parry strike threw or mages don't get that?

No to both. Mage staffs don't get the parry strike-through bonus and charms (book/chalice/focus) do not count as weapon for the parry bonus.

[Ruin]

Thx for claryfication.

[Blorke]

Big bot energy in this post.

Great post, thanks for participating.

[Aluviya]

Is there any reason why the same tactic, in the same respective trees, that the RP gets a bonus 10% disrupt bypass over the same tactic that zeals get?
Is literally the same thing, but the RP gets a bonus disrupt bypass while the zealot doesn't? I know it's "not all mirrors", but that seems a bit in your face.

RP Efficient Runecarving:"While under the effects of your Rune of Breaking; you gain 10% disrupt strikethrough and each time you deal direct damage, your defensive target is healed for 50% of the damage dealt."

Zeal Transference: "While under the effects of your Harbinger of Doom; each time you deal direct damage, your defensive target is healed for 50% of the damage dealt.:

The Zealot also got the 10% buff before the ability rework but it was missing from the tooltip. It then got reverted completely when the rework went live. It's on the bug tracker: https://bugs.returnofreckoning.com/view.php?id=22000

Or how the tactic that makes Demon Spittle debuff armour also provides a corp debuff (zealot's main damage type) as well, and sits at 3 points in the tree; whilst the RP equivalent only debuffs armour and is a 7 point ability? You're right, it's "not all mirrors".

The position in the trees is weird, but the damage debuff has nothing to do with RP being nerfed. It's actually due to BW vs Sorc. BW and RP both do Elemental as their primary damage, however Sorc does Spirit as its primary damage and Zealot does corp. This means the corp debuff on destro - which stacks with other buffs - is nowhere near as powerful as an elemental debuff on order. FWIW the Zealot has The Most Useless Tactic In The Entire Game as it's 7 point AOE tactic. Half the tooltip is redundant as it changes a 30ft radius ability to... a 30ft radius.

Zealot gets to hit a bit harder, while the RP gets increased AOE range on the right tree.

I appreciate your perspective on this matter. However, I respectfully disagree. In my view, the Rune Priest (RP) needs to have an Elemental Resistance debuff to be viable as a DPS class. Without it, any damage output would simply inflate numbers without real impact. The alternative of making abilities purely damaging as a balancing option was met with significant backlash, particularly when RP could snare with Rune of Immolation, which was uncleanseable. Therefore, this wasn't a valid option for balancing either. I believe both classes need to devise a streamlined approach for how they could function as DPS classes without becoming overpowered, and in that regard, other classes like Bright Wizards should be tweaked. Because Resistances are a core element of the game, missing out here seems to me like a poorly designed class.

It's important to note that while Bright Wizards (BW) may use Elemental Damage in their Right (Semi-Singletarget) and Left trees (AoE), Destruction currently has all the debuffs to deal higher AoE and ST damage for Sorcerers. For example, the Magus has the strongest AoE debuff for Spirit Resistance, while Black Orcs and Zealots have Corporeal Resistance debuffs, which used to stack with the tactic of Zealot AND Talon.

To me, both RP and Zealot as DPS are "wannabe damage" classes, lacking the necessary tools to compete on a serious DPS level like Disciples of Khaine (DoK) and are far from BW/Sorc/Magus/Engineer. Moreover, the absence of an Elemental Resistance debuff can have negative repercussions in PvE, where Sorceresses consistently deliver impressive numbers while Bright Wizards are capped as a PvE class on the Order side.

What

Your argument is about OTHER tactics not mirrored, my argurment is about the MIRRORED tactics. Here, i'll make it easier for you. ALL are rank 11 tactics.
Zeal: Charger's Touch - Critical direct damage hits place a debuff on your target that reduces all incoming healing by 30% for 5 seconds.
RP: Rune of Nullifacation - Critical direct damage hits place a debuff on your target that reduces all incoming healing by 30% for 5 seconds.

SAME mirror.

Zeal: Tzeentch's Grip - Direct heals you cast have a 25% chance to create a shield on your target that can absorb up to 712 damage over 10 seconds.
RP :Ancestor's Echo - Direct heals you cast have a 25% chance to create a shield on your target that can absorb up to 712 damage over 10 seconds.

SAME mirror

Now, lets talk about the LAST one in question.
Zeal: Transference - While under the effects of your Harbinger of Doom; each time you deal direct damage, your defensive target is healed for 50% of the damage dealt.
RP: Efficient Runecarving - While under the effects of your Rune of Breaking; you gain 10% disrupt strikethrough and each time you deal direct damage, your defensive target is healed for 50% of the damage dealt

Again, the "entire class" in not a "perfect mirror", BUT, the M I R R O R E D tactics are the SAME minus the RP gets the BONUS 10% disrupt strikethrough, so excluding all the other NONmirrored tactics that are zeal/RP specific, and focusing on the MIRRORED tactics, I again ask why the MIRRORED tactic for the RP gets the +10% and the zeal doesn't.

This perspective feels very valid in this context. I generally believe that tactics, especially those requiring investment in specific paths, should have a comparable impact. The argument that classes are not mirrored cannot always hold true if the core idea of the tactic is the same, particularly for a tactic that demands at least a 12-point investment.

An inconsistency arises too with tactics like Sweeping Disgorgement (SD) compared to its counterpart, Concussive Runes. SD has a lower spec requirement but provides an additional effect, benefiting other classes like Witch Elves (WE) with Corp DoTs. Moreover, the Corp debuff from SD is quite impactful, especially when combined with Talon, which Zealots still retain despite the nerf to RP's Stoutness tactic. So basically from the healer's perspective, RP is just a nerfed version of Zealot with lesser requirements for speccing the AP tactic due to it being in the first tree.

I am still awaiting balance adjustments here, particularly in terms of moving the Talon Morale to M2, because every other healer, if they possess an impactful morale—such as Archmages with Blinding Light—must sacrifice Focused Mind or Rampaging Siphon.

[wargrimnir]

Big bot energy in this post.

Great post, thanks for participating.

Usually when someone makes a brand new account and posts something highly detailed it's either a bot that's copied another post to edit a day later with some spam links, or it's someone that's bypassing a ban.

[Leviathan333]

The argument about Sweeping Disgorgment vs Concussive Runes is not part of my question, but I'll add my two cents in since that seems to be the "but but but this" argument.

One makes it hit a harder via res debuff, one makes it hit more targets. Comparing a shotgun to a flame thrower really. Seems like a fare modification for either side. Sure you might want it on your prefered toon. It's not a 1-1 mirror in all wording.

The crux again is the M I R R O R ed tactics, pointing to every other unique tactic isnt the point. Zealot doesn't have Potent Runes for example, making two dps undefendable, RP doesn't have Waves of Chaos that makes rituals tick. Those are the flavored NON mirrored tactics. We could point fingers back and forth on the NONmirroed all day.

It's the fact that ALL the lvl 11 tactics are identically mirrored minus the one stated, that's the rub. 10% disrupt bypass with around 1000 int is around an additional 10% bypass for a total 20%. With 900 Will power, getting a flat rate of 27% disrupt. So instead of 17% going to 7. Going from around a 20% chance to not take damage vs a 7% chance to not take damage is a hell of an undercut.
And since it affects ALL the RP's damaging output and not just one damage spell is why the "but this tactic over here for this one spell" argument is mute.

Would you be fine with every zealot damaging spell having "Bypasses 10% disrupt chance" on it, and RP's not having the same?

[Blorke]

Big bot energy in this post.

Great post, thanks for participating.

Usually when someone makes a brand new account and posts something highly detailed it's either a bot that's copied another post to edit a day later with some spam links, or it's someone that's bypassing a ban.

Since this is no troll- or shitpost, i give him the benefit of the doubt, because we simply don't know for sure. It's still a valid question though and a healthy discussion, accusing someone of something could only derail this whole thread.

[Aluviya]

The argument about Sweeping Disgorgment vs Concussive Runes is not part of my question, but I'll add my two cents in since that seems to be the "but but but this" argument.

One makes it hit a harder via res debuff, one makes it hit more targets. Comparing a shotgun to a flame thrower really. Seems like a fare modification for either side. Sure you might want it on your prefered toon. It's not a 1-1 mirror in all wording.

The crux again is the M I R R O R ed tactics, pointing to every other unique tactic isnt the point. Zealot doesn't have Potent Runes for example, making two dps undefendable, RP doesn't have Waves of Chaos that makes rituals tick. Those are the flavored NON mirrored tactics. We could point fingers back and forth on the NONmirroed all day.

It's the fact that ALL the lvl 11 tactics are identically mirrored minus the one stated, that's the rub. 10% disrupt bypass with around 1000 int is around an additional 10% bypass for a total 20%. With 900 Will power, getting a flat rate of 27% disrupt. So instead of 17% going to 7. Going from around a 20% chance to not take damage vs a 7% chance to not take damage is a hell of an undercut.
And since it affects ALL the RP's damaging output and not just one damage spell is why the "but this tactic over here for this one spell" argument is mute.

Would you be fine with every zealot damaging spell having "Bypasses 10% disrupt chance" on it, and RP's not having the same?

Currently CR and SD are exactly the same tactic. With CR requiring higher investment (8 mastery points into right tree), while having no resistance debuff and SD requiring less (4 mastery points right tree) with additional resistance debuff to the armor debuff

[Absinth]

Healers are for healing and dps are for dps, the dps specs of healers are purely for when the live event hits and you need to kill something for it. RP fares better in the damage than zealot anyways.