Scenario Matchmaking Rework Megathread

[Akalukz]

For the love of gods remove barriers, allow free entrance to your own wc and bring guard's kills renown. Then pugs may try and at some point succeed at fighting premade.

I have many found memories from WAR where prems lose to good bunch of pug players. To achive that pug player need the leverage of save spot to retired and possibility to gain something even if that is guard kill

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

[calipso]

For the love of gods remove barriers, allow free entrance to your own wc and bring guard's kills renown. Then pugs may try and at some point succeed at fighting premade.

I have many found memories from WAR where prems lose to good bunch of pug players. To achive that pug player need the leverage of save spot to retired and possibility to gain something even if that is guard kill

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

[trh382]

The system you want to strive towards is one where there are good reasons to queue for both premades and pugs at all times

I think in the dead times, where only one scenario can be fire, you want to encourage people to queue discordants and have it completely mixed. 24 people on across chaos and order who want scs? All queue tier 4 or mid tier or w/e and get mixed together and play some games.

In the higher pop times you want to create space for premades to play - because the game is about teamwork and group play.

Ideally premades play premades and pugs play pugs, BUT this wont always align numbers and people want games. So you need a system that does its best to match games, but also focuses on firing games.

Finally, one of the most important things you can do is help people understand where the opportunities are to play good scs when they log on. I think the biggest challenge facing SCs right now is that most players want to hop on, queue, and get games. The SC interface doesnt show them where the other players are that want the same thing.

I strongly suspect that the average ror sc player spends a lot of time in situations like the following:

1. seven players queued for t1 scs - half are working on new characters, half just trying t1 queue because mid tier isnt popping and t4 has no healers. 5 of the 7 have t4 chars available and 6 of the 7 have mid tier chars available.

2. 18 players queued for mid tier SCs but no healers on destruction so the destro players are not going to get to play the game and will log in two scs, killing mid tier.

3. 22 players queueing t4 scs - there is trade chat premade queueing on order and smashing the destro pugs. A destro trade chat premade ended 40 minute ago because they couldnt get pops. 3 of them are in mid tier currently about to log in frustration due to no healers. 1 of them went to bed and 2 are trying to find a tank for Gunbad.

There is a replacement for their sixth slot currently getting bored in the tier 1 queue, but they dont realize that the t4 queue is back up.

the 47 people online to play scs can clearly be sorted into 2-3 fun sc games and a queue system that provides more information to players can help them achieve that goal.

[blakokami]

Am I correct in thinking that any changes to the scenario system will result in less overall scenario pops, especially in low pop timezones (NA, AUS) ?

It very much seems to me that the end result with be that premade groups will get less pops if they win more and less pops will happen in general if there aren't enough of each archetype queueing. The thing I want most and what everyone I play with wants most is just getting more sc pops for everyone no matter what time of day it is.

Also Hamzy if you wouldn't mind clarifying one thing: One part of the post seemed to imply that repeatedly winning scenarios is exploiting the system or would be in the future? Is this how I should be reading that?

[Hugatsaga]

For the love of gods remove barriers, allow free entrance to your own wc and bring guard's kills renown. Then pugs may try and at some point succeed at fighting premade.

I have many found memories from WAR where prems lose to good bunch of pug players. To achive that pug player need the leverage of save spot to retired and possibility to gain something even if that is guard kill

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

Yup please bring back guards (outside of solo/group ranked).

Guards were also initially removed and barriers introduced so premades could farm pugs harder which is opposite of good design.

Another good thing with guards would be that they are also comeback mechanic to an extent: if you have 1-2 people getting guard killed, tides can turn all the sudden and losing side gets momentum. Doesn't happen too often but it DOES happen occasionally: I've both won and lost scens because this and it feels really nice to be outgunned but get good comeback victory. On the other hand feels bad to throw winning scenario for overpushing into guards but since it's perfectly avoidable and can only blame myself and not game design.

So yeah, I'll vouch for the guards for sure

[Hazmy]

Am I correct in thinking that any changes to the scenario system will result in less overall scenario pops, especially in low pop timezones (NA, AUS) ? The thing I want most and what everyone I play with wants most is just getting more sc pops for everyone no matter what time of day it is.

Also Hamzy if you wouldn't mind clarifying one thing: One part of the post seemed to imply that repeatedly winning scenarios is exploiting the system or would be in the future? Is this how I should be reading that?

The Goal is to improve the matchmaking system so that Teams would be balanced and fair, to increase the general enjoyability of Scenarios. Normally speaking, this should not affect the frequency of Scenarios, though during low population times it might mean occasional shuffling of players in the queue to make sure the Teams remain balanced.

We aren't ready yet to give exact details around the new matchmaking metrics, but no, winning repeatedly isn't considered an exploit - the previous update simply states the new matchmaking would potentially try to challenge Teams more who are performing very well, instead of matching them against a pug group that is likely to lose.

[Akalukz]

Am I correct in thinking that any changes to the scenario system will result in less overall scenario pops, especially in low pop timezones (NA, AUS) ?

It very much seems to me that the end result with be that premade groups will get less pops if they win more and less pops will happen in general if there aren't enough of each archetype queueing. The thing I want most and what everyone I play with wants most is just getting more sc pops for everyone no matter what time of day it is.

Also Hamzy if you wouldn't mind clarifying one thing: One part of the post seemed to imply that repeatedly winning scenarios is exploiting the system or would be in the future? Is this how I should be reading that?

I would go as far as making this type of suggestion.

Premades - 6 man - fill scenario with 6 man only groups (2 / 3 per side whatever), inherent crest and renown bonus for queue as a 6 man- Keep going. reward streaks etc.

Everyone else gets dumped into Discordant - Allow Duo Queue - Winning team will be thrown into the premade mix on the next go around with a crest bonus, win at the premade level get the premade bonuses.

Have a window that shows all queued, premads / discordant / class artchtypes. Put a trainer in the premade scenarios, give option at the end of discordant to "progress" as a group to the premade. all or none go forward, or just requeue discordant.

[mekal]

Am I correct in thinking that any changes to the scenario system will result in less overall scenario pops, especially in low pop timezones (NA, AUS) ?

youre not alone with that concern its exactly what happened with last sc queue rework and why it was reverted
people wanted more balanced scenarios well guess what theres not enough population so we had 3 hour queue times(not an exaggeration)

also i find it hilarious how people think premades are this huge boogeyman when there are maybe 4 or less active guilds on this server if you cant put in effort to join a /lfg group (lfg i not prmade btw it is quite literally the definition of pug) then play discordant and deal with those que times

[MedV]

Am I correct in thinking that any changes to the scenario system will result in less overall scenario pops, especially in low pop timezones (NA, AUS) ?

It very much seems to me that the end result with be that premade groups will get less pops if they win more and less pops will happen in general if there aren't enough of each archetype queueing. The thing I want most and what everyone I play with wants most is just getting more sc pops for everyone no matter what time of day it is.

Also Hamzy if you wouldn't mind clarifying one thing: One part of the post seemed to imply that repeatedly winning scenarios is exploiting the system or would be in the future? Is this how I should be reading that?

So you would prefer winning 500-0 Scenario after scenario, spawn camping the enemy if it meant instant pops right away? I would think a serious premade would put good competition before anything else.

Why dont you split your 6 man into a 1-1-1 and the other 1-1-1 goes destro. Both groups recruit 3 random pugs and you guys fight it out. Would honestly be good fun.

[SRoth137]

Discordant is more than enough in terms of catering toward casual SC gameplay.

There is currently no reward that is locked behind SC participation. If players aren't enjoying the general SC content (repeatedly dying to organized group) they can queue discordant, form their own group, or alternatively choose to progress their characters in oRVR. Similarly, if a 6 man is not enjoying oRVR content (repeatedly dying to numerically superior force), they can choose to form their own warband or alternatively progress their characters in SC.

I suspect the solution offered here is going to be worse than the actual problem. Any attempt to match-make or stratify during low population times (ie: NA) is going to be a net negative.


2 cents