Scenario Matchmaking Rework Megathread

[Bozzax]

Surrender is a perfect example

On a personal level I can end scs that are uneven early rewarding the loosing side and winning side faster rewards then playing actual scs. (Remember you always have the option to leave by booking out so there is already an “I won’t have this” option for individuals)

On a queue level strong comps on average end up playing shorter matches >>>> more matches >>>> higher % of uneven matches overall in RoR

Good, bad? The key question would be does the effects of surrender support overarching goals of the server or scs?

[Bozzax]

Maybe look into why high rr/geared players switch realm or drop queue when they sense one side being weaker or queue discordant only

Quite telling tbh

[JohnnyWayne]

The Guards fetish has got an other side of coin, there are kite groups that dont fight in a middle if they are facing equal premade, they kite back to guards and bait a mistake, then they press on opponent. Is it better then bariers we have right now? Only time will tell and how a topic will be aproach with balance team.

It is predominantly destro players calling for guards over barriers for exactly that reason. ST range on destro is considerably stronger than on order. From my experience barriers do not push enemies away from the spawn but the SC is lost anyway at that point. Guards on the otherhand entice toxic behaviour like range premades kiting and hiding in spawns to get free farm or dominating enemies even pushing spawns for more kills, which happens on a regular basis.

[akisnaakkeli]

The Guards fetish has got an other side of coin, there are kite groups that dont fight in a middle if they are facing equal premade, they kite back to guards and bait a mistake, then they press on opponent. Is it better then bariers we have right now? Only time will tell and how a topic will be aproach with balance team.

It is predominantly destro players calling for guards over barriers for exactly that reason. ST range on destro is considerably stronger than on order. From my experience barriers do not push enemies away from the spawn but the SC is lost anyway at that point. Guards on the otherhand entice toxic behaviour like range premades kiting and hiding in spawns to get free farm or dominating enemies even pushing spawns for more kills, which happens on a regular basis.

OMFG! Did you just say that its DESTRO PLAYERS who want GUARDS and not Barriers? I mean if this is the quality of players.. Im dumbfounded how you can even think this way : D " It's a realm thing dem guards " ffs im gona stop now because im getting so sad and mad that i will be banned if i say what i want to say. SO JUST BEHAVE=)

[JohnnyWayne]

Predominantly is a fancy word that means "mostly". If you are not one of them, good for you - or not. To answer your question: No I did not say that. You instantly jump into conclusions, saying it would be ALL that think that way. Reading comprehension: F.

None of this matters in regards of match making. It is general SC design and not the topic of this thread.

[Helwer]

Finally. Thanks for that.

Give options for really small groups to have SC even when Population is very low - starting from 1/1/1 or both sides without heal or both sides without tank - maybe even dps only. Just keep numbers and achetypes equal. Also when groups get filled during sc.

Stop Premades farming Pugs. Premades have so many options to play hard and "fair" SC vs premades but don't use it. So give Pugs finally more than 1 Discordant without being matched to regular SC. When i decide to play pug and have the option to join solo, that should result in an equal chance to win an SC.
Following this: Give Weekend-Warfront for Pug-SC or change the system to something less abusable.

Bolster/Debolster for Gear- and Renown-Gap also an option.

I support other suggestions like making visible which classes are needed or x-realm queue as we know it from ranked. That can also be considered for PvE but that's different discussion.
We can talk about "surrender" and penalties when we have fair fights and less 500:0 farm fests. But not before or in advance.

[calipso]

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

Imho you are forced, killed, and then ppl tend to afk, book out or surrender by the lack of possibility to fight back. In an scenario where 2 premades are matched, 1 on each side (as others mentioned BfP or many other scs), your K factor is Pugs. Match will be decided by that, i’ve seen such scenario back on live and here in RoR throughout many years, even if you are top tier premade, paired with bad pugs will ended up being totally one sided, no matter the realm or party composition. Even if there are premades or not, with removing barriers and bringing back guards you are giving them the opportunity to fight back, you will open a window to keep fights going on, not “forcing” them to be behind a barrier, waiting for surrender to be available. I think this change will promote more fights, but is a matter of perspective at the end of the day.

[Nameless]

The Guards fetish has got an other side of coin, there are kite groups that dont fight in a middle if they are facing equal premade, they kite back to guards and bait a mistake, then they press on opponent. Is it better then bariers we have right now? Only time will tell and how a topic will be aproach with balance team.

The goal of most scens is not killing shitloads of ppl. You got flags, carry stuff, control objectives. So if enemy is idle at flag just win the scen how it is suppose to be done by doing objectives.

So when premade got upper hand at the scen they could decide to go for the kills but risk being killed by guards or do the objectives and win the scen. Weaker team on other side could afk deep at spawn or try to fight near the safety net of guards and got somebrenown from guard kill.
When you have barriers you remove the option for the weaker side to fight, they just idle cos they are weaker and there is nothing to help them to fight the stronger side. How is that not obvious for the ppl, I cant get it

[Bozzax]

The goal of most scens IS killing shitloads of ppl. Very few maps play out differently

It is more effective to trigger a surrender then doing “flags, carry stuff, control objectives”

Barriers make this even more effective bc there is no recovery. The worst map is garden/arena where respawns are on multiple points further preventing a regroup (the hide and seek scs). Best times is when the stronger team ignore the mobs and chase solo respawners or when 2 premades on different sides both kill pugs

[calipso]

The goal of most scens IS killing shitloads of ppl. Very few maps play out differently

It is actually more effective to play surrender the n doing “flags, carry stuff, control objectives”

Barriers make this even more effective bc there is no recovery. The worst map is garden where respawns are on multiple points further preventing a regroup (the hide and seek sc).

Ok. So you get same scenario 2 times in a row or even more, just a regular weekend scenario non stop queued by strong premades doing their thing in order to complete rewards (i’ve been there i’ve done that and always thought it was unfair to the opposite faction) Even 2 premades stacking in same realm. Do you want me to keep doing scs in order to feed the other realm? Or you want for me to stop doing scs at all? Or give me the chance to turn the tables? Not much choices i got left there. We should promote to queue as another part of the game imho. If i want tons of kills I’d simply stop doing scs and go rvr, there is where i get lots of kills. Again is just a different point of view. I just hope next matchmaking is more fair in that regard, either if there is barrier and guards or not.