[Engineer] Phosphorus shells

[Nishka]

I can't think of a single pressure DPS class/spec that does not have an incoming heal debuff.

sorc? magus? wl?

Magus and engineer are mirrors and suffer from similar problems. I wouldn't mind if they both would get a heal debuff if engies get +15% crit tactic
WL has a heal debuff, Thin The Herd.
Sorcs don't have a HD afaik, but with sheer amount of sorcs' damage... Is it such a big loss?

[TenTonHammer]

14 points up what i hear is their weakest tree and is Out going also the talk was of inc not that i complain since with that much burst and inc hd there would be like no ttk

[Landaren]

No, just no.

There are enough goddamn healing debuffs in the game as it is.

Seriously if we are going to start adding more into the game we should reduce the values on the ranged ones at least

Healers having to deal with constant 25% output is way past aggravating.

[lilsabin]

No, just no.

There are enough goddamn healing debuffs in the game as it is.

Seriously if we are going to start adding more into the game we should reduce the values on the ranged ones at least

Healers having to deal with constant 25% output is way past aggravating.

or just remove all the inc. heal debuff ability and rework the healing "system" , other game dont "really" have that much of a healing debuff abilities and every thing go well in them (rift , wow , gw , etc.)

[TenTonHammer]

Reworking the entire healing system i feel would be too big of a task for the devs to do and this isnt even considering the ramifications of things such as having to rework everyone of the then defunct inc Hdbuff abilities and the fact that WL will probably become the best mdps in the game as one of its major "drawbacks" would disappear

[Karast]

I really like the idea of swapping strafing run and PS. It is a good simple common sense switch, that doesn't greatly change balance.

When T4 rolls out rifle will need some love, but rifles problems are not just engi problems. Armor stacking and armor pen are an issue that is shared with the other prdps. SH /SW have similar issues when it comes to mitigation, they have a few nice abilities here and there but it is just as hard if not harder for a SW / SH to kill a high armor target as it is an as an Engi. So I see the issues of armor / pen as being something that is going to need to be address on a larger scale. Armor plays a huge part in T4 balance, and it causes problems all around, and it is a problem that grows they higher the RR and the better the gear people get, so it is something that is an important issue.

As far as abilities go though. It is true that strafing run would not be a fantastic 13 point ability. It would be okay. It has it's uses, and it meshes with rifle well. It is a good way to get / keep a melee train off you while you get distance, which is a key part of rifles playstyle.

[Nishka]

Yes, sh and sw suffer from armor stacking as well, but they have much more utility. Engineer rifleman path utility is just zero.
Regarding ability swap... Strafing run is much better than PS, no doubt here. But would you to go up the rifleman tree to take it? Me not. On t3 I won't give up the "extra ammo" tactic, on t4 I'll better go further tinker path and take first "trench fighting" tactic, then keg. And if someday we reach 80rr, +15% crit instead of +15% damage is no-brainer.
But of course, ability swap is better than nothing and it can be a first small step to bigger changes.

[Karast]

Yes, sh and sw suffer from armor stacking as well, but they have much more utility. Engineer rifleman path utility is just zero.
Regarding ability swap... Strafing run is much better than PS, no doubt here. But would you to go up the rifleman tree to take it? Me not. On t3 I won't give up the "extra ammo" tactic, on t4 I'll better go further tinker path and take first "trench fighting" tactic, then keg. And if someday we reach 80rr, +15% crit instead of +15% damage is no-brainer.
But of course, ability swap is better than nothing and it can be a first small step to bigger changes.

Well it is not like every end tier ability in the game is fantastic. A lot of them suck. I think there is a solid way to use strafing run in rifle builds which would make it worth spec'ing for the knockback utility, and the somewhat decent damage.

I think it is important not to get too ahead of ourselves. Small changes like this are key. I don't think the dev's are prepared to, or even able to consider trying to fix every weak or broken ability in the game, there are just too many, and just by looking at the discussion threads so far, very controversial.

With the snipe / lm change already, with this change, and perhaps making well oiled machine core. It would be a big overall effect. Add in armor / pet stat tweaks down the road and it will be even bigger in T4.

[Jaycub]

anti-healers that can pressure healers from long range.

AFAIK the BW/Sorc heal debuff centers itself around willpower reduction
.

What is playing with fire then?

An absolutely awful skill along with the shamans mirror

[Nishka]

Isn't well oiled machine core now?