Fortress Lords and their mechanics

[Vanmeldebrecht]

Dwarf/orc forts now super funnel heavy. Sry thats not rly a mechanic.
U could simply close postern or make doors smaller again and it will have the same effect.
Oh wait no, now the funnel is also upwards which makes it even harder.
Easy def.; ppl with similar skill and gear on both sides u probably can defend twice the number of attackers.

The only constant on the fort changes from the beginning are measures which either favor funnels heavily or making them impossible.

For forts these days, mainly ppl are defending. Either you get stomped and put out of your misery fast or you can farm your enemy for 30-45min.
But being funneled for half an hour no thank you, Sir

Exactly this is the reason why oRvR gets in a stalemate on end zones more often lately:
- Attackers don't wanna siege to probably get funnel on fort zone.
- Defenders dont rly wanna push back the zone cuz they want to funnel the enemy on forts.

This rly hurts the oRvR and it's not a player mentality problem it's more the lack of alternatives.

[Vanmeldebrecht]

1 Month ago Devs add the possibilty for a WB to pass from postern, because the def was too easy, and now they have create a Fort with only 1 way to go in... This is total sensless

Exactly, this back and forth changes are rly not helping

[martholomew]

Dwarf/orc forts now super funnel heavy. Sry thats not rly a mechanic.
U could simply close postern or make doors smaller again and it will have the same effect.
Oh wait no, now the funnel is also upwards which makes it even harder.
Easy def.; ppl with similar skill and gear on both sides u probably can defend twice the number of attackers.

The only constant on the fort changes from the beginning are measures which either favor funnels heavily or making them impossible.

For forts these days, mainly ppl are defending. Either you get stomped and put out of your misery fast or you can farm your enemy for 30-45min.
But being funneled for half an hour no thank you, Sir

Exactly this is the reason why oRvR gets in a stalemate on end zones more often lately:
- Attackers don't wanna siege to probably get funnel on fort zone.
- Defenders dont rly wanna push back the zone cuz they want to funnel the enemy on forts.

This rly hurts the oRvR and it's not a player mentality problem it's more the lack of alternatives.

Agreed with this 100%.

Spending 45 minutes trying to push up a set of stairs that can be defended with a relatively small handful of people because for some reason a KEG on the upper floor makes the boss unkillable is not fun at all.

The keg mechanic is too gimmicky and is such an easy "we win" situation that makes people just not want to bother with it. I'm all for sticking things out and doing my best with my warband, but come on.

Get rid of the keg mechanic, or nerf it so that we only do half damage to the boss and greatly reduce the riposte damage rather than making him practically unkillable unless that keg is down.

[zachary]

Just ran my 2nd or 3rd Stonewatch with the new Keg mechanic, as a rr68 sorc.

It needs work. Overcoming Lord Room funnels is difficult, but - because of a large main doorway and an opposing postern - possible at the current keep numbers. Overcoming a single-access turn-in-stairs funnel at current numbers? Near impossible. If I get LoS into the cluster at the top, they have LoS on me and I'm immediately toast. If I try and drop a ground-target AoE (pit).... I can't target the top of the ramp from the sides, despite being able to see the target in first-person view. Even my straight LoS targetting doesn't seem to work correctly through a tight enough space (eg. the triangle space where the ramp goes up to the floor above).

How about putting the keg _below_, on the ground floor? It'd give some incentive to hold that floor, while not requiring it, and would force defenders to spread out a bit. If the fortress doors (or at least the one leading straight to lord floor) were also pickable/openable by melee (I don't remember if they are or not) then attackers would actually have a bit of a choice of where to attack first and which funnel (lord floor or bottom) to attack, at the risk of having to go through very small tunnels to get there

[wargrimnir]

You guys realize this is an explanation of mechanics that have been in the game for several months, and not NEW mechanics, right?

Merely having awareness of what the mechanics are should make things easier to deal with, not harder, yet you're complaining something you had no idea about is overpowered AFTER these changes (which are not actually changes at all).

pls

[Hat]

You guys realize this is an explanation of mechanics that have been in the game for several months, and not NEW mechanics, right?

Merely having awareness of what the mechanics are should make things easier to deal with, not harder, yet you're complaining something you had no idea about is overpowered AFTER these changes (which are not actually changes at all).

pls

I don't see how that makes the posts about pushing keg forts irrelevant?

The past week or so Order have been defending stonewatch the exact same way: defending the keg room. I'm not exaggerating when i say that when there is 60+ order (there was over 100 today) defending the TINY - and I have to stress this as it is the most broken part of the new 3rd floor keg defence tactic - TINY stairwell it is quite literally impossible to wipe them.

Barely two people can fit up the ramp and it is complete instant death the moment you approach the order camping at the top.

The keg lords really need to have their mechanics adjusted because right now, you quite simply cannot win stonewatch unless order massively **** up.

[adamthelc]

Yeah awareness of mechanics may have caused defenders to exploit them in a pretty nasty way. They arent doing anything but playing the game around the way it was designed though, so I am not criticizing anyone.

Keeps were given 2 ramps to lord for a reason. Having to kill something on a floor to be able to damage the lord is essentially the same thing as having the lord on that floor.

Seems like the easiest solution would be to move the keg/effigy to the same floor as the lord. Of course first it would have to be an acknowledged problem before you needed to find a solution.

[Wam]

now they know what is needed to be done, they adopt their tactics to suit and it just becomes win by default for defenders... when they didn't know they would come out to fight and get caught, but now its just boring bunker sit wait and aoe tiny funnel... its a bit of difference because they know their lord is 100% safe and never in any danger so there is no incentive for them to move or fight. The attackers will die 2 by 2 with relatively next to no chance against any half decent opposition.

second time tonight same thing at stonewatch happend, even with alot bigger number that was semi organised for pug level (but numbers do not matter because the mechanic takes away this)

you see you only need a certain amount of mass to defend such a small funnel on top of the stairs, the bodyblock and lag is problematic alone... any half arsed semi organised defence of a certain mass should easily beat superior numbers without any effort... and if a organised force is there then you can forget about it.

I know you want to make forts hard to take, but it's really punishing the attacker and over rewarding the defender at the moment... so why attack and why not throw zones and defend that seems to be what alot of the community does? If no one is pushing the campaign and waiting for defense then ZZZZ.

Is it possible to make the stairs bigger leading to the third floor if you wish the mechanic to be this way forever?

Alternatively is it possible to add a second set of stairs so defenders actually have to communicate and move around to defend from side to side?

Is it also possible for the buff to be a huge damage reduction like 90% and not invincible? so defenders would have to push down and not win by passively playing and being rewarded via easy defensive mechanic and choke?

Or Alternatively is it possible to spawn the Item in the lords room? or alternate its spawning every couple minutes between lord and 3rd floor?

or you are happy with the current status quo of mechanics and the imbalance between attacking and defending?

I see it already creating a more toxic and demotivating player base... which is not ideal, soon destro will only want to realistically push one out of three forts.

Anyways hope you come up with a reasonable solution which is balanced and fair to both offense and defense, as things stand its too skewered in defenders favour imo.

Cheers

Wam

[havartii]

I like the fact that they are making the forts difficult for the zerg to take. over 100aao through zones and they expect a cakewalk for Invaders. Is it too hard at the moment? Yes it needs adjusting. The Keg stairwell defence is next to impossible to take. Collision is so horrible in this game, it is just the way it is. So don't let people exploit it.

[martholomew]

I like the fact that they are making the forts difficult for the zerg to take. over 100aao through zones and they expect a cakewalk for Invaders. Is it too hard at the moment? Yes it needs adjusting. The Keg stairwell defence is next to impossible to take. Collision is so horrible in this game, it is just the way it is. So don't let people exploit it.

And exploiting is precisely the term I would use to describe how it seems to play out.

It's basically just bringing Destruction targets into one easy convenient place for nigh-invincible semi-organized small bands of Order to easily farm RR.

Tonight was just a gigantic waste of time for all of us that tried. Very deflating and destructive to the urge to keep on trying at all. Coordinated M4 bombs didn't even make a dent.