Proposal: Discordant SC Weekly Event

[Caleb]

You are not wrong - most of the "out of order assumptions" are not from this Thread but a summary of earlier ones.
but while you list all the points who are not directly refering to this Thread and you are "not wrong". You fail to mention or comment on THE ONE really good argument he is making:

If all solos would que discordant for two weeks straight, showing that they are a community that acctually cares about all this stuff, I'm sure you could change more then with such proposals here, I would be happy to join there! When I play solo I nearly only que discordant, maybe Ironclad if aviable, I would never ever think it's a good idea to que for the others, and if so I'm aware that I will get my a.. whiped.

I have in-directly reacted to that and many others also pointed it out. It isn't a feasable proposal to ask a large number of people with no connections to each other to create a form of "movement" to revive a currently dead in-game mode, with the chance that maybe it might get better in the future.

Most people are selfish and self-centered with limited time for entertainment and they will most likely do whatever is more fun to them, over prioritizing a community for the greater good, especially on this server I feel where sadly I don't see a lot of unity as of now. Hopefully that will change.

That is where development action and support is required if possible and their time allows - to encourage and incentivize players to do something and herd them into the right direction - such as the Tome Event Proposal to revive the queue and incentivise people to queue up more for Discordant.

There is support for Discordant Queues - that is why these topics pop up frequently on the forums.

-----

For the DM, indeed I didn't answer as I feel talking about my country and culture with someone I've never interacted with before is quite personal and out of the blue - no offense intended. But on that note I know of no country or culture where hostility is a form of normal constructive forum between people - but in the end is also non-relevant when such behavior is just against the Term of Service of this Forum where the RoR Team clearly has set rules they'd like people to follow.

[Ashoris]

==========>

There are literal Guilds that exist on the server with the sole purpose to pug farm in scenarios and quit the moment they get a premade team against them - only to re-queue later.

There are comps that focus specifically to stomp pugs. I'm sure that must be fun to play against.
==========>

I know some of the guilds who are just as casual as every alone queuer with no interest in sweaty hard fights vs other premades that are playing more competetive.
they just want to relax and play like every other "alone queuer"

i dont think its fair to mark that as something negative.
simply because they did 1 step more than the solo queuing "alone player". They grouped up ... just for the fun of it - should they be punished for it and fight only competetive premades - or did they earn a slight advantage because they put "a little bit more effort" into it ?

They literally are the "average alone Joe" but with enough "brains" to change the one thing they can control (build a Group instead of beeing at the mercy of the matchmaker).


remember when you mentioned all the out of order assumptions ? They come from sentences like this
There is no shame in casual players grouping up and play vs other casual people without the interest in fighting more "competetive premades".
Sentences like this giving the assumption that as soon as you "group up" you leave the status of the casual Player and join a different club that is measured vs a "higher standard" ....
thats simply not fair to them!

[Everdin]

The problem is that you assume far too many things that are either inaccurate, well proven by playing just for a few days, or are just ?!possibly?! projections of your own issues with other people, that has nothing to do with the thread and so you continuously derail it, like you are doing it right now, in order to devalidate the very reasonable points made here by many, and make the opposition to your idea what the game should be look like "rants" "cries" and "ridiculous".

Your completely out of order assumptions :

• - That this is a rant. I am fairly confident the "Wall of Text" has been a well-articulated proposal with clear intentions without any focus on negativity or calling out other players. Nor have others been ranting for all I know.

• - That this is a problem for me, and this thread is a selfish request due to it. Ignoring the fact this was a proposal based on a number of people asking for these changes, and there are people who support it. There is a whole swarm of new players in Cross for instance who filed a complaint to Troma.

• - That I am frustrated and I made this post out of frustration?! I am very chill thank you.

• - That I am trying to exclude Premade and think "they are the server's scum". I've never called anyone of the sort, nor have I made remarks against premades, so I'd appreciate if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. No, Premades already have Events for them, I actually mostly play in Premades in fact, so I know what I am talking about. It's the solo people who don't have a functioning game mode, and a Premade team stomps solo players without any effort.

• - That "we are angry about other players" and this is complaining. No this is simply a suggestion to fix a problem for a lot of people, of which group you might not be part of.If there is any anger in this thread, it is certainly not coming from me.

It's none of my business to "stop you", it is for moderators - but I will very much call you out for for grouping me and others into some sort of "villain cult" that's only purpose is to "cry, complain and rant" while this whole discussion and thread has been mostly civil, full of good proposals and the only negativity and bad remarks have been from your side, as you can very much see from the quotes I've taken from your very posts.

So yes, I will once again say that if you are unable to participate without aggressive remarks and being generally hostile with others - then simply refrain from commenting.

- You are calling out premades abusing the system, queing for discordant. While there was a bug that seems to be fixed, the is no evidence for premades queing discordant to abuse the system. It may happen that some people knowing each other land in the same discordant, due to the lack of paralell ques for it.

- While you are right that there is no direct conclusion if you are part of the "group of people" you are advocating for, you took the time to express them in your post in, I have to admit, a well articulated and well formated way. With this suggestion you put yourself in the focus of this topic, so I feel sorry if you personel feel attacked by what I said and you can 1:1 transferr all what I said completly to your "clients".

- You are trying to exclude premades, and I did not put something in your mouth, I made a conclusion based on your claim that premades abuse queing systems and allege people would form premades just to farm others and not because they are playing this game as they want, together with others.

- It's a suggestion for a problem that does not exist, if people not encouraged to play discordant all week long, a gamemode thats dedicated for them, but instead say "Hey in discordant there COULD BE some bad apples, I rather join the normal que to be sure there are premades.".
There should be no need for a new rewards, discordant itself should be the benefit for solo players. This suggestion is not to give a save spot, it exists, it's about an additional reward only for them.

Yes, you are right, this is one of the moderate threads regarding this topic, and maybe my words were a little bit heated but forgive me if I'm a little bit tired about these discussions, feel free to look for similar threads and you maybe will understand. As mentioned in my post before, I play the game in mostly all facetes, and I play the gamemodes that are intended for them and this works pretty fine. Just tell me why people que for normal SC all week long, but they are not willing to just que discordant without extra benefits.

[Ashoris]

I have in-directly reacted to that and many others also pointed it out. It isn't a feasable proposal to ask a large number of people with no connections to each other to create a form of "movement" to revive a currently dead in-game mode, with the chance that maybe it might get better in the future.

Most people are selfish and self-centered with limited time for entertainment and they will most likely do whatever is more fun to them, over prioritizing a community for the greater good, especially on this server I feel where sadly I don't see a lot of unity as of now. Hopefully that will change.

That is where development action and support is required if possible and their time allows - to encourage and incentivize players to do something and herd them into the right direction - such as the Tome Event Proposal to revive the queue and incentivise people to queue up more for Discordant.

There is support for Discordant Queues - that is why these topics pop up frequently on the forums.

-----

For the DM, indeed I didn't answer as I feel talking about my country and culture with someone I've never interacted with before is quite personal and out of the blue - no offense intended. But on that note I know of no country or culture where hostility is a form of normal constructive forum between people - but in the end is also non-relevant when such behavior is just against the Term of Service of this Forum where the RoR Team clearly has set rules they'd like people to follow.

But it was a feasible mode in the past and you met lot of people queueing PUG SC only. So it was clearly possible. Then the staff reacted to a loud minority in the forums and discordant went dead.
This minority also claimed its for the better of the solo Players and will greatly improve the Discordant community !

So in my opionion its a valid arguement to say - hey look we already changed things for you (at the cost of everyone who plays in duo) - please show us that we are on the right track with that !

also i really dont like the argument that most people are selfish and self centered so we should cater to them, i think the exact opposite should be the point.

[Sulorie]

There is a "pug friendly" game mode because there were too many complaints about premades, it became even more pug friendly by removing 2 man groups and still there has to be weekend event based on this mode for players to actually queue for it?
I am sorry but when does this stop?
Make an in-game pop up to teach new players about the sc queues.
If people stop to queue all, discordant will pop more frequently. The maps are even randomized.

But no, it is easier to queue all and then complain about unfair matches against premades.

Btw, because it was mentioned, most SC ending with surrender is neither good nor bad. Good fights still last and one sided farm fests end sooner.
On live you had to endure the full 15 min, anyone calls that better?

[Caleb]

I know some of the guilds who are just as casual as every alone queuer with no interest in sweaty hard fights vs other premades that are playing more competetive.
they just want to relax and play like every other "alone queuer"

i dont think its fair to mark that as something negative.
simply because they did 1 step more than the solo queuing "alone player". They grouped up ... just for the fun of it - should they be punished for it and fight only competetive premades - or did they earn a slight advantage because they put "a little bit more effort" into it ?

They literally are the "average alone Joe" but with enough "brains" to change the one thing they can control (build a Group instead of beeing at the mercy of the matchmaker).


remember when you mentioned all the out of order assumptions ? They come from sentences like this
There is no shame in casual players grouping up and play vs other casual people without the interest in fighting more "competetive premades".
Sentences like this giving the assumption that as soon as you "group up" you leave the status of the casual Player and join a different club that is measured vs a "higher standard" ....
thats simply not fair to them!

That is a good take on casual groups who just want to have fun together brainlessly, if that is really the case, though one could argue they are still going to have advantage over completely random teams and in the case of randoms grouping up - well their reason is to have better chances to win right?

But you also pointed out the problem with what you are saying - if there are so many groups who just group up to have fun together without aim to have a better chance, they would just get more teams such as them to play against, no issue there. But you say otherwise, you say they would be forced to play "sweaty hard fights vs other premades" instead.

So these sweaty hard premades do exist then, and the casual group should get pugs against them to have an easier time instead of a fair Premade vs Premade?
In essence yes, if a group of people decide to join together, they do become a more potent team and they do have that slight advantage.

Spoiler:

I made no assumptions on Guilds or Premades, there is proof of guilds with the intention of pug stomping or premades dominating in Scenarios - but it is against the community rules to share any names and so I didn't share - but it is also not important to give specific names. It is easily proved that Pug Stomping exists.

So overall I agree that a weaker premade Group suffers from the same problem, that if a better premade is formed, they will lose. But that is a difference between team and individual skill, and just because a team isn't good enough it doesn't give them the validation that then it is fair just for them to face random pug groups instead in order to win.

If anything this reinforces that the problem of premade teams is an existing one.

Regardless, my proposal would change nothing for Grouped Up Teams again - it would simply give a better alternative for solo players who don't want to face premades - to have Discordant Queues incentivized for them, and those who don't care can continue to queue up against potential premades. Currently your only option is to either suffer or quit queuing - because no matter how much you try, the majority will still not form groups, and like you said a group of "average alone Joes" is still not going to be a match against a Sweaty Premade team.

[Everdin]

You are not wrong - most of the "out of order assumptions" are not from this Thread but a summary of earlier ones.
but while you list all the points who are not directly refering to this Thread and you are "not wrong". You fail to mention or comment on THE ONE really good argument he is making:

If all solos would que discordant for two weeks straight, showing that they are a community that acctually cares about all this stuff, I'm sure you could change more then with such proposals here, I would be happy to join there! When I play solo I nearly only que discordant, maybe Ironclad if aviable, I would never ever think it's a good idea to que for the others, and if so I'm aware that I will get my a.. whiped.

I have in-directly reacted to that and many others also pointed it out. It isn't a feasable proposal to ask a large number of people with no connections to each other to create a form of "movement" to revive a currently dead in-game mode, with the chance that maybe it might get better in the future.

Most people are selfish and self-centered with limited time for entertainment and they will most likely do whatever is more fun to them, over prioritizing a community for the greater good, especially on this server I feel where sadly I don't see a lot of unity as of now. Hopefully that will change.

That is where development action and support is required if possible and their time allows - to encourage and incentivize players to do something and herd them into the right direction - such as the Tome Event Proposal to revive the queue and incentivise people to queue up more for Discordant.

There is support for Discordant Queues - that is why these topics pop up frequently on the forums.

-----

For the DM, indeed I didn't answer as I feel talking about my country and culture with someone I've never interacted with before is quite personal and out of the blue - no offense intended. But on that note I know of no country or culture where hostility is a form of normal constructive forum between people - but in the end is also non-relevant when such behavior is just against the Term of Service of this Forum where the RoR Team clearly has set rules they'd like people to follow.

I looked it up earlier, there were 66 standard and 64 discordant SC (edit: Today!), I did not deep further but I'm pretty sure there were some standard ones full with alone-quer. Shifting this guys over to discordant would maybe caused a draw or even more discordant then standard one. Giving the question what is the "dead in-game mode" you were refering? It's thuesay, midday, there is not extra reward or punishment for not queing discordant, but people que for standard.

These Threads are no support for discordant ques, and you can't exclude this one here. It's about additional rewards, "We have what we need, but we want more so we start playing it!".

[sioding]

This is my personal opinion and does not reflect that of the team. I think that a WW mode for the Discordant queue significantly removes players from the normal queue, because the easiest way is always taken to get results, never the more complex one. The fact that there is a discordant mode at all is a concession to solo players. This was simplified again when the duo option was removed. I (personally - see above) find the amount of concessions for solo players to be enough, especially in view of the current number of players.

[Everdin]

...

Regardless, my proposal would change nothing for Grouped Up Teams again - it would simply give a better alternative for solo players who don't want to face premades - to have Discordant Queues incentivized for them, and those who don't care can continue to queue up against potential premades. Currently your only option is to either suffer or quit queuing - because no matter how much you try, the majority will still not form groups, and like you said a group of "average alone Joes" is still not going to be a match against a Sweaty Premade team.

It would not give an alternative, the alternative exists, standalone weekly discordant event would encourage people fighting for rewards not to form groups but instead going discordant, what would not only change the chances of /5 groups getting people. While encourage alone-quer to do so seems like a good point, encourage people that are willing to group up but need crests etc should never be the target for an mmorpg.
And this would indeed change group based gameplay. Not only that but a lot of, let's say "more experienced players regarding group play (that still is a point even in discordant)", would flood discordant and making things there worse for the people that already found the way into discordant without the needing of extra benefits.

There is no suffer or quit queing, there is standard or discordant, and with your proposal it would be ... standard or discordant (but with flowers and unicorns!!!)

Edit: Solution was there and multiple times mentioned in this thread - removing duos from discordant was a bad idea and will always be a bad idea, all what happens was mentioned before and the decision was made nonetheless!

[Ashoris]

So overall I agree that a weaker premade Group suffers from the same problem, that if a better premade is formed, they will lose. But that is a difference between team and individual skill, and just because a team isn't good enough it doesn't give them the validation that then it is fair just for them to face random pug groups instead in order to win.

This is where i disagree with your view - i think the "just for fun people" who group up have all rights to be matched against all types of other people.
Why should they be punished for putting effort into the game for the good of the community (i think casual Groups are good for the community - there should be more people out building such groups).

As others stated, the solo queue exists and can be used by people who want to play solo.

SO why is an extra incentive needed to queue for that ?

• to get more Players to play that style of gameplay because the current community is too small ?

• or because the current community does not care enough about that mode to use it (because the alternative is convenient enough ? )

• or is there another reason i forgot ?