anyone feel balance BIAS?

[alusnova]

Dat sum is up good. Pretty much what im thinking aswell!!

Yeah those 2 melee shadow warriors sweep the land before them and bathe in the tears of the vanquished....

If something is OP, people play it because people are lazy yet we dont see swarms of assault shadow warriors, how peculiar....

I am pretty sure you are not able to see swarms of WLs too ...

You do know that Guardian WL were nerfed recently right ? They are still a strong class in the hands of a good player just like many of the classes on the hands of good players.

Yes I think many newish WL think they will roflstomp people because all they hear in advice from both sides is WL are OP so they roll WL but let's be honest here some of you Destro players even after the devs toned the WL down are still crying about WL or keep telling the narrative that WL are Thanos 2.0 , luckily the dev team has no bias.

Now I'm RR70 WL since the guardian tree nerf I stopped targeting tanks (unless they are 2h spec ), regen maras , good high rr melee doks, etc... I choose my targets carefully so I win most of my fights but is not because I'm OP is because I learned my class .

[riddleout]

Balancing classes in an mmo is difficult enough. However, balancing class mirrors where the "minor" differences have a such a large impact on the class play style and how they synergize with other classes for pvp fights sounds like absolute hell. Props to the balance team, the game is way better than it was on live.

But I still agree with Nefarian78, order has an edge in organized pvp. Now whether that is because order has more players who prefer to play in organized 6-man groups or class balance issues; the fact that a handful of dedicated pvp destro guilds migrated to order points more towards the latter.

I'm just a fan of the game but it is clear to me that a balance issue exist within the class mirror abilities, order has better synergy over destro. It's the same issue that plagued the game during Live.

[Spoosh]

The game on live was vastly order biased. Every order class was better than his counterpart, they had gear advantage and even map advantage.
The situation here is much better, with devs playing on both sides and aiming for a fair game (or at least it seems to me).
The game here is much more balanced than it was on live:

-now items are balanced between factions: choppa/slayer, knight/chosen,etc. Share the same armor and weapons with the same stats, on live order and destro used different items and it really favored some classes over others (weapons specially).

-now keeps are randomized: it's not always the order that gets all the 'hard' keeps (close to wc, easy to defend, oil unreachable by rdps) and destro gets the pieces of dirt. Keep ownership is random now, Mandred's hold or Gnol Baraz for example can be attacked by both factions. Scenario maps are quite fair, except reikland factory.

-the salt factory: class balance
It's alot better than on live. Most of the stupid unblalanced spells & abilities have been nerfed: tank one-shotting SW, crit stacking KOTBS, infinity pounce WL, infinite HP/energy/RF WP, insta-FB spamming BW, thanos-mode SL have all been nerfed to oblivion (thanks god). Unfortunately they also killed dps dok and choppa/sorc synergy.
I think most of the ror devs are aware of the problems and did a really good job at balancing the classes. It's just too bad they introduced the stupid 100% crit debuff on order wich only helped to keep the status-quo of order dominating the small scale scene. Or so I was said.
So when it comes to wb play, zerg, big numbers the things are almost fair now, the only problem is 'bomb' warbands wich encourages the stacking of the same class to abuse ONE overpowered ability (ruin&destructions for order, great fang for destro, with, unsuprisingly, quite a good advantage for order with faster acces to said ability)
When it comes to solo/duos the game still favors order. With 6 viable order roaming specs (AM,IB,Kotbs,SL,WL,WH) vs 3 for destro (DOK/MARA/WE) it is simply not advised to try solo on destro. Duos are cool tho. (The nerf of fleshrender items maybe put kotbs in the solo trash can with chosen).

Conclusion: the environnement is now balanced between factions. Open rvr good but still problematic, small scale could have been balanced but a dev decided to give the middle finger instead, soloing still really order biased. Duos seem to be the sweet spot where I find the game being balanced in term of possibilities and fun when I'm on my destro or my order character.

Just my 2 cents.

[anarchypark]

my observation.
biased ppl really like the word 'fact'.
like it's the spell that could convince anyone.
maybe it's self targeting spell.

only yourself can dispell it.
by playing your biased class 40/40.

[Natherul]

I think most of the ror devs are aware of the problems and did a really good job at balancing the classes. It's just too bad they introduced the stupid 100% crit debuff on order wich only helped to keep the status-quo of order dominating the small scale scene. Or so

We did not specifically implement that, its the calculations that was told as the one that live used. The only modification that was done is to fix an edge case where the math and code does not work well together.

With the formula for crit that was given you are 100% of the time crit if you go below 30 (or 35, cant remember exactly from the top of my head) initiative at level 40.

Now if you know that the calculation is wrong and happen to sit on the right one, do share it. But the consensus from people seems to be that it is the formula live used. And Ill be the first one to admit that the formula is really terrible and Id happily change it for something better.

[Glorian]

The massive shift in population in the premade scene (and in general) is a fact, like the fact that most order premades started bringing Assault SWs and that 95% of the SW population is now Assault specced. The almost complete disappearance of any form of organized play in Destro is also a fact. the forever long queues in order and then being matched against the same 1-2 premades left is also another fact.
...

I don't know why Phalanx and TUP made it over to Order. When both were on Destro side they pretty dominated EU Primetime RvR into Destro's favour. If you faced Phalanx with a same sized Warband you were usually dead in 10 seconds or less. So we introduced inter warband voice to get some better coordination in the field.

[Bozzax]

I think most of the ror devs are aware of the problems and did a really good job at balancing the classes. It's just too bad they introduced the stupid 100% crit debuff on order wich only helped to keep the status-quo of order dominating the small scale scene. Or so

We did not specifically implement that, its the calculations that was told as the one that live used. The only modification that was done is to fix an edge case where the math and code does not work well together.

With the formula for crit that was given you are 100% of the time crit if you go below 30 (or 35, cant remember exactly from the top of my head) initiative at level 40.

Now if you know that the calculation is wrong and happen to sit on the right one, do share it. But the consensus from people seems to be that it is the formula live used. And Ill be the first one to admit that the formula is really terrible and Id happily change it for something better.

Calc is right, it stacking is likely right end gear however is vastly diff (compare ini values of sov, df, wf).

The fact that was balance/removed from chp also is relevant

[Knowthyself]

Yeah those 2 melee shadow warriors sweep the land before them and bathe in the tears of the vanquished....

If something is OP, people play it because people are lazy yet we dont see swarms of assault shadow warriors, how peculiar....

I am pretty sure you are not able to see swarms of WLs too ...

You do know that Guardian WL were nerfed recently right ? They are still a strong class in the hands of a good player just like many of the classes on the hands of good players.

Yes I think many newish WL think they will roflstomp people because all they hear in advice from both sides is WL are OP so they roll WL but let's be honest here some of you Destro players even after the devs toned the WL down are still crying about WL or keep telling the narrative that WL are Thanos 2.0 , luckily the dev team has no bias.

Now I'm RR70 WL since the guardian tree nerf I stopped targeting tanks (unless they are 2h spec ), regen maras , good high rr melee doks, etc... I choose my targets carefully so I win most of my fights but is not because I'm OP is because I learned my class .

Lol nerfed? How making something too strong and then slightly decresing it is a nerf really? It was a strong class in the hands of good players before these changes even back in live but now it is just an easy mode class. I think the new WL is an overexeggrated anti-kite class which was designed to make the failers happy by simply making it as easy as just choosing your target right . It is great to see you at least have only some problems against certain specks of three destro classes. Yours is a hard life I have to say...

[Zegota]

See, the OP is the perfect example of why destro can't have nice things. Maybe their motivation is to come and have an actual discussion, but being emotinally developed on a pre-teen level, and not having the ability to articulate their thoughts properly makes it look like they just came here to ventilate. And then they, as per usual, get meme'd on. Or you have your chronic whiners, like Aurandilaz for example, that noone takes seriously.
Someone made an observation recently that order in general cries better, so we need an upgrade on them destro tears.

[Wam]

The massive shift in population in the premade scene (and in general) is a fact, like the fact that most order premades started bringing Assault SWs and that 95% of the SW population is now Assault specced. The almost complete disappearance of any form of organized play in Destro is also a fact. the forever long queues in order and then being matched against the same 1-2 premades left is also another fact.
...

I don't know why Phalanx and TUP made it over to Order. When both were on Destro side they pretty dominated EU Primetime RvR into Destro's favour. If you faced Phalanx with a same sized Warband you were usually dead in 10 seconds or less. So we introduced inter warband voice to get some better coordination in the field.

Order gave up too easy... Destro began to zerg too hard
Competition and challenge
Freshness and different style / character progression
no dwarfs of ekrund macro's on destro

There was nothing left to prove on Destro, no renown gain, thousands and thousands of medals passed... raid over in 10 minutes too many times if ideal setup... order is really inconsistant and pugs/mentality is weaker so they needed a little more boost for balance reasons otherwise they generally give up unless someone like phalanx/invasion/grand alliance was out in big numbers to help carry their morale / lack of giving up... but still its more fragile than Destro. We still play both, but more so order for the valid reasons above. I try make the game fun for us, but for others also... lack of fun for order if we bring high RR/geared/experienced destro warband out to play all the time... lack of fun for us if challenge not great enough... now with order and being lowbie rr/gear/experienced its a bit more fair fight we will try things we get zerged people will talk smack no doubt, we have fun and ain't affraid to die we know how it is.

As for balance between WB's... both side's have access to nice things, most people don't use these nice things and only complain about what the other side got and talk about "bias" without realising the difference in playstyle and setup... so many people basing their experience from garbage setups's (0-1 tank in party, 1+ healer in party) multiple unguarded useless WB dps class like WH/SW/WL in party... then wonder why Destro melee train destro's them with the lack of sustain or tank wall or counter dps even... if our general ORVR wb setup TUP Destro could fight TUP Order... in ideal setups, i think fight comes down to small mistakes and terrain... that's despite gear/rr advantage favouring our Destro... with adjustments to Destro setup for WB v WB instead of WB vs Zerg ... Maybe it would favour Destro a little bit more... however if our Order characters was fully renowned/geared then it would be super interesting... the fact I think one side can beat the other and vice versa means there is some semblance of balance even if its a bit weird because things are not exactly the same but they never have been. (If only one side could win then population balance would be completely broken)