o7
Sure thing!
Discussion is a bit heated, but please let it flow. I would even dare to say its not very offtopic, because afterall its all about enjoyment of very important gamemode and finding a sweetspot to satisfy major interests of all the community parts, be it regular folks, #nevergroup or #filthypremades. And it still has a connection with a thread in a way of priorities for MM.
Im also very eager myself to share stories of old, because for people who joined much later it looks like there is no logic in whats happening, while there always was. All the events are strictly connected, where we are now is not random thing. Decisions had reasons and now we better see consequences.
Why do you think that i dont know? I know, i just wasnt in a mood to keep discussion in academic way, cause its not interesting, like at all, mainly because we chew thru same arguments worded differently and i cba to answer those in strict technical manner as then i will have to properly formulate them instead of you, guys. Adding on top a fact that its all clear as night&day and this server has seen it all i word it in "The Ways of Salt" (c)gisborne wrote: Fri Nov 21, 2025 1:39 am You clearly don't know what a strawman argument is.
You claim there aren't solo queue players because discordant doesn't happen. You are wrong and I told you why. It's not that hard to understand why solo players would rather queue all than queue just for discordant. Reply if you need an explanation though and I can provide one for you.
so maybe it will be more clear for people who have less experience and havent been here while it was all discussed and happening before.So let me explain you instead in a bit more chill and more strict manner:
Here is a strawman, you connect intended technical separation of que with an event of DS not popping. Whole design point of DS has been that if you want to play as solo there is a special place to do that. Scenario is a group content, like a dungeon. Thats why they are separated.Discordant doesn't pop often because you have to specifically queue for that scenario and that scenario only otherwise it will throw you in a regular scenario
I, then, explain you reasons of why its not popping. And those reasons are not separation of q.
No, it will not. Because majority is somehow grouped, as duo/trio/<6/6 and current rules will not let those people in. There is also no design logic to prioritize DS over other scenarios too.If the queue prioritized discordant, it would be popping all the time.
Not all of them press "Join all". Majority of them have filters and block undesired maps for various reasons, majority is also anyhow grouped so it cant form DS. Rule of thumb is that if you want to play without premades then you press q DS and supposed to have fun. The issue is that there is not enough such people to launch games. Is what im saying. Or the other incredibly funny theoretical observation one can make - solo players pressing join all dont mind playing against premadesFor example, say there are 24 people on each side queuing, 6 in a premade and 18 solos. All of them press "Join all". Discordant will not pop because it will fill a scenario for the premades first and discordant is treated as just another scenario.
The only one issue exists for your example where solo players mainly flood q - its warfront weekend. They dont join all, they join warfront specifically, they want rewards, they play and suffer there for rewards. Thats different issue. I mentioned it as well in previous posts.
Technically yes, DS is just another scenario, it has no priority to be filled. But it shouldnt by design, its a safe no premades spot for solo to play with their own kind. Players just choose not to. Because by combat mechanics those instances are no different then rest of the game, so you will get stomped there just the same way as playing against premades.
And stomps are totally different issue, could even discuss it being design issue as there are no reliable comeback mechanics and whole this thread is full of questions for barriers, guards etc.
So, tl;dr even if DS would be prioritized for no reasons it would still not pop, because there still would be lack of people who want to commit.
Like i previously mention, then duo q was a thing there has been many big names both as duo or even solo. BiS, skilled, knowledgeable persons who knew the drill. To fuel that, there has to be majority of clueless, undergeared folks. But! Here is the trickest part - those clueless lads who cba to gitgud are not joining because they dont wanna sit in spawnspot and thus population of DS is 0, barely possible to form 2v3 match. So first, clueless lads exodus cause got stomped (and come forums with their tears of premades wrecking them in their solo safe space) -> population gets decreasing trend but kept alive by duos -> grouping up (duo) is banned -> skilled people lost interest -> clueless + skilled left = no solo players are in proper amounts to launch games.
So, now, look, a reality check:
- grouping up is allowed in DS -> DS thrives, it pops none stop, there lots of duos
- grouping up is forbidden in DS -> it dies out
P.S. same story for ranked, for solo ranked to pop it needs people who will be:
a) constantly losing and be bottom so elite tryhard can always climb (be it on alt or just hoping in late) thru them and fuel upper tiers - thats very hard to motivate, nobody likes to lose, ideal solution would be to give insignias for each game, so low skill players will just grind them out constantly for all their alts, ocasionally winning 1 game out of 10, that would be enough to fuel this bracket;
b) stalemate in the middle with 50/50 winrate to fuel mid tiers and let elitists to climb upper tier - this one goes automatically thats the absolute majority, nothing had to be done;
c) upper tier of elitists with MMR decrease so you wont be able to park yourself on the very top with 30 wins 2 losses made in proper time (usually at the very beginning, when population is not yet put into strict brackets) - toptier died out very fast, best of the best climb there and stop playing because pops are slow, possibility to lose bragging rights etc so there had to be MMR decay which havent been in place to force them into q or make top of leaderboard fluid.
so if solo ranked for its craziness is ever considered for reviving i believe getting rid of 10k crests ring, gating it into ranked but highely increasing chances for literally anyone to grind it out by sheer luck would be enough motivation for people to play it. or better just do it event style like @ismetto suggested, more fun.
group ranked is totally different as it needs very high commitment to form a team which will then have to build synergy between people so they will at first have to lose 30+ games against established premades, this barrier is just way too much efforts for regular joe and reason why we have no teams formed for a very long time and just toss all the same players all around.
