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Onslaught and hard PQs22

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szejoza
Posts: 748

Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#1 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:34 pm

Hiho!

As we are after release of the Hard Ch22 PQs and Onslaught set I decided to give some feedback after succesfully running ~7-8 runs and few unsuccesful attempts. I'll give my insight based on Dammaz Skar PQ as I'm dirty order-only player

I really like the job you guys did, especially 3rd and 4th stages are fun. Not a simple tank and spank but requiring explanation of tactics to the rest and forcing good setup of warband. Will go into detail later ;) let's start with the stages in chronological order.

First off - trash, 1st and 2nd stage are pretty much the same in mechanic, if anything I'd suggest lowering the number of trash needed to kill by 20%, not a big difference but it would not bore ppl to death. It's only a 30mobs difference in total for 2 stages.

3rd stage is working perfectly, it is a good moment to set up warband with the newcomers that were late on earlier stages and explain tactics. The thing that this stage boss have unique abilities make it an interesting encounter instead of being simple tank&spank.

Lord fight is simply gorgeous, although acquired skill often bugs UI for ppl but I guess that can't really be helped. It is a proper PvE fight requiring knowledge of tactics and proper setup. Half-assed warband will fail miserably

Now, don't take this part as trash talk or attack in devs direction, it's just mu thought on the all hard PQ22 encounters.
If we were regular EA/mythic server the current strength would work well but as for now encounter is too hard. 99% of the guilds are small, maybe 2-3 guilds can supply 24man 2-3 times a week at most, and these people are hardcore RvR players, they won't step up to do PQs that won't give them anything as gear isn't comparable with current BiS sets.
Now, we obviously can't lower the PQ difficulty to fit 6man in there but making it 12-18 man should be okay (still 9+). That way even small guilds can fill their ranks with pugs and attempt to finish PQs.
Why I think that is the issue? Well, when ruin came out it was one of the best sets in game and ppl were farming it like mad, everywhere they could, for few weeks. Now we see that Onslaught came out and... for 6 hours we had trouble getting enough ppl to join our WB, after 2 hours we managed to run our 1st Dammaz Skar. After 1st run half of the people left cause only 1 bag dropped for 24 man and we had to wait to fill our ranks... and it was like that every run.
Now, it was the first day that usually shows the interest of the population in doing stuff like that, I must say I was dissapointed that on average it was around 20ppl all the time in EU primetime! (our warband was in most cases full but there were always people still en route to the PQ, hence the effective number). Once other 22hard PQs are open people will spread even more and it will be even harder to get a group (and after that pray to RNGesus for bag). Imo fitting it more for 12mans would ensure action in these areas even for timezones that have troubles supporting full warband even for RvR (yup, NA folks) and make it appealing to the rest. Let's keep in mind that majority of players are here for the sake of RvR and don't give a damn about PvE. Now let's not make it harder for that few guys that want to enjoy PvE side of the game.

Anyways cheers and good job with the PQ, lord fight is really amazing.

and an extra 'how to lose roll by 1 point for gold bag' (purple were giving ruin fragments at the time, no idea how it is now)
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#2 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:25 pm

The PQs have been tested for weeks and are aimed at 24man - with less people its harder and with more people the mobs become harder. Once bugs are fixed, they will most likely drop 2 gold 2 purple bags each having OS pieces. The gear is not mandatory to have and no class is forced to grind to the PQs.
The PQ should be doable with 18 people (but obviously far more challenging) who all know what they are doing and running proper gear + builds. Obviously getting 3-4fgs together is not easy, but thats why guilds exists and why alliance exists so that people can play together and form large units that are capable of facing greater challenges than the usual smallscale stuff where 6ppl showing up is enough to tackle the problems faced.
If your guild has 1-3 ppl online at best, maybe ask yourself is this the best way to get most out of this game, or maybe it would be beneficial to join a larger group that can tackle larger challenges. :)

Just like on live, you had Colossus PQ where you needed 1-2 wbs, it was hard to win but the rewards were worth it. ;) And unlike on live where Colossus was always randomly buggy, here Onslaught PQs will receive a lot of bugfixes over months to come.

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DokB
Posts: 538

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#3 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:44 pm

What’s the trick to stage 3 for destro at Slayer Keep? Some people said you need to kill all 3 heroes at the same time since they get massive buffs when they die before each other, not sure if that’s true though or if the runeward thing needs to be destroyed first. Only got to play it 3 or so times before it got removed.
Every time we tried to do multiple runs of the PQ the server would be restarted for hotfixes coincidentally (#justNAthings) so I never even got to see stage 4 and the lord battle.
Zoggof - Black Orc
Doinks - Ironbreaker
Leatherman - Blackguard

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Greenbeast
Posts: 335

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#4 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:16 am

Aurandilaz wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:25 pm The PQs have been tested for weeks and are aimed at 24man - with less people its harder and with more people the mobs become harder. Once bugs are fixed, they will most likely drop 2 gold 2 purple bags each having OS pieces. The gear is not mandatory to have and no class is forced to grind to the PQs.
The PQ should be doable with 18 people (but obviously far more challenging) who all know what they are doing and running proper gear + builds. Obviously getting 3-4fgs together is not easy, but thats why guilds exists and why alliance exists so that people can play together and form large units that are capable of facing greater challenges than the usual smallscale stuff where 6ppl showing up is enough to tackle the problems faced.
If your guild has 1-3 ppl online at best, maybe ask yourself is this the best way to get most out of this game, or maybe it would be beneficial to join a larger group that can tackle larger challenges. :)

Just like on live, you had Colossus PQ where you needed 1-2 wbs, it was hard to win but the rewards were worth it. ;) And unlike on live where Colossus was always randomly buggy, here Onslaught PQs will receive a lot of bugfixes over months to come.
How many guilds can bring 24 people online to do a public quest for 4h/day? And why they should do it in this particular case?
I done this quest and it was quite fun and challenging but with this amount of bags and quality of loot(not bis piece, no quest specific rewards ) I don't see it been as popular as gunbad. You run gunbad even if you have good gear because it gives you a lot of money, liniments and dyes + it is great pve experience. This public quest just do not provide anything that attract high rr/gear players to run it over and over. Like I said I done it and I don't see any reason to do it again now tho it is very good designed encounter.
I believe that there should be more rewards in green/blue bags like liniments/dyes or more gold maybe to make it worth the logistic of getting 24 people together and repeat it.
Last edited by Greenbeast on Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sedok
Posts: 121

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#5 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:33 am

szejoza wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:34 pm
If we were regular EA/mythic server the current strength would work well but as for now encounter is too hard. 99% of the guilds are small, maybe 2-3 guilds can supply 24man 2-3 times a week at most, and these people are hardcore RvR players, they won't step up to do PQs that won't give them anything as gear isn't comparable with current BiS sets.
Now, we obviously can't lower the PQ difficulty to fit 6man in there but making it 12-18 man should be okay (still 9+). That way even small guilds can fill their ranks with pugs and attempt to finish PQs.

This is an issue that will affect RoR for every design decision: should content be designed for the current climate of small guilds? Or should it be toned up for larger guilds to force the smaller ones to grow? I personally think the latter, but there's no guarantee that the guilds will actually grow; the current server culture already struggles to cultivate large guilds for ORvR. This is an age-old MMORPG problem, the developers build the game one way and the players play it another (see E.V.E. and the consistent arguments between CCP and the prominent guilds).

For the Onslaught PQ specifically, the content should be oriented towards larger groups and be a significant time sink, as Nork said it was intended to be an alternative to Conqueror (which itself takes a significant time to farm). BWs/Sorcs and WHs/WEs will want help farming for it, and once I do some theorycrafting and testing, healers may really want it to free up a tactic slot from RB. There also may be some set combinations I didn't see, health-regen tanks may find something, SMs may want to try the Barrier proc for a lolsorb build, and Magus may want the Erosion proc if it stacks with other debuffs. Don't dismiss the gear just yet, its new and there's still a lot of exploring to do.
Live: Karak-Azgal = Sedok, Golgaroth, Sakneth / Karak-Norn = Xnohrx, Alfriger, Volgarn / Vaul's Anvil = Alfriger, Volgarn, Dolgarn


RoR: Volgarn, Golgarn, Alfriger, Kelthazuul, Sedok

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
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Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#6 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:52 am

Loot rates aren't final, they will go up a bit when we're satisfied. Can't test everything on dev.
Difficulty target is 18-24 competent players. Maybe a little more if you can handle the damage buffs, but not a lot more.
Time investment target is similar to other full sets you can acquire at this gear level.
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Sedok
Posts: 121

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#7 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:15 am

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:52 am
Maybe a little more if you can handle the damage buffs, but not a lot more.

The buffs Xeliah did to the Order PQ on the day of the patch? He came in and changed the damage and health of at least the first two stages of mobs, and it was a very welcome change because you could no longer chain-pull packs and mindlessly grind. The damage/health of the mobs was scaled very well for our 24-man pug; the AoE from the Shaman NPCs combined with the Bad Gas debuff from the SHs presents quite a few opportunities for a group to wipe if they aren't careful.
Live: Karak-Azgal = Sedok, Golgaroth, Sakneth / Karak-Norn = Xnohrx, Alfriger, Volgarn / Vaul's Anvil = Alfriger, Volgarn, Dolgarn


RoR: Volgarn, Golgarn, Alfriger, Kelthazuul, Sedok

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Hargrim
Former Staff
Posts: 2465

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#8 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:28 am

Sedok wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:15 am
wargrimnir wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:52 am
Maybe a little more if you can handle the damage buffs, but not a lot more.

The buffs Xeliah did to the Order PQ on the day of the patch? He came in and changed the damage and health of at least the first two stages of mobs, and it was a very welcome change because you could no longer chain-pull packs and mindlessly grind. The damage/health of the mobs was scaled very well for our 24-man pug; the AoE from the Shaman NPCs combined with the Bad Gas debuff from the SHs presents quite a few opportunities for a group to wipe if they aren't careful.

That's me. NPC dmg and mitigation scales up with each player above 24 limit.
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Trekman
Posts: 56
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Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#9 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:03 am

Any chance of upgrading the stats ? Set bonuses are fine. But the reward isn't with the risk.

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Hargrim
Former Staff
Posts: 2465

Re: Onslaught and hard PQs22

Post#10 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:35 pm

Trekman wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:03 am Any chance of upgrading the stats ? Set bonuses are fine. But the reward isn't with the risk.

Risk of what?
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