DPS WP in a Warband setting

[Tyrex2017]

@ orginal poster : thanks for to post.
About the armor penetration problem, simple fix : make all dps abilities as spirit damage.

I never understood why WP are not full spirit dps.

[live4treasure]

On the topic of spenders, from my previous analysis for dw DOK as an AOE dps for warbands it turns out that their optimal strategy to maximize their damage would be to ignore crit and focus on maximizing WS and STR.

Effectively this means that even for dwDOK which has a career resource spender in the form of Drowning in Blood, it is actually optimal to ignore it (you can still use it, but the STR/WS build has 4% crit total so you will not be critting most opponents anyway).

If the AOE dots (Soulfire/Fell Sacrifice) are to be reworked or if new abilities are to be added, providing both classes with a proper resource spender would make total sense for 2hWP, but only practical sense for dwDOK. The majority of people looking to play dwDOK for wbs would immediately assume that the crit route is the way to go, making a 2nd career resource spender less synergistic there:
Drowning in Blood already drains your resource very fast if you want perma uptime on it (13s to drain full resource bar, 13,5s to rebuild it to full while spamming Essence Lash). Adding a second spender into the mix would result to even poorer uptime for DiB for crit builds.

There is also the issue of balancing the ST dps aspect of those classes. Whatever is added should ideally not further buff up the ST performance of ST builds.

Whatever the solution is, it would probably have to take all the above into consideration. To me it seems like it cannot be something mirrored.

For what it's worth, I'm qualified only to speak about WP. I think that if DoK also gets some changes, I'm all for it, but all I can and will speak about is WP and let other players express what DoK might need.

[Forbiddian]

yes please, more AOE would be heavily welcomed, exactly what the game needs

[Endari]

The Wrath Warrior Priest had more active game play BEFORE the update. Smite spam was basically our channel that we held for pushes and to combine with the channels of other classes. This patch made the Warrior Priest a 1 button spam class. The empowered smite build leaves almost no room for any creativity. You can cast Soulfire right before you engage but the range is so short, you'll be lucky if you even hit anything. If you cast it in melee, on average you are set back long enough that you could've used smite anywhere from 2-3 times. 1 stack of guilty soul does just about as much damage as soulfire. Right now, in a warband setting, there is almost no point in ever casting soulfire. It's a straight dps loss versus hitting smite. Having the reduced cool down on Unstoppable Wrath has been helpful, but the Warrior Priest still has no real way to re-engage after root/snares/knockback/knockdown. By the time you get back into combat the fight is usually over. We use our RF to Hammer of Sigmar basically whatever is the closest target. Soulfire is already an AOE ability. It just needs reworked to actually be viable in a wrath build. It requires a two handed weapon so its only available to wrath and right now, its basically useless. Changing it doesn't add more AoE to the game. Its already here.

So I absolutely agree that we 2h DPS WP was significantly better pre heal patch(just needed something to help being kited) but I do not agree that any more AoE damage is needed in this game, if it was up to me all the AoE changes they have made since live would be removed. I know that will never happen so I have completely given up on RvR and simply never enter the lakes anymore or honestly ever even log in(only really play during events/weekend sc's).

Why cant there be something other than aoe damage that makes a class WB viable? How about some anti aoe abilities, wouldn't that fit the WP more buff/defensive style of play? Just something other that more dps aoe please.

[live4treasure]

The Wrath Warrior Priest had more active game play BEFORE the update. Smite spam was basically our channel that we held for pushes and to combine with the channels of other classes. This patch made the Warrior Priest a 1 button spam class. The empowered smite build leaves almost no room for any creativity. You can cast Soulfire right before you engage but the range is so short, you'll be lucky if you even hit anything. If you cast it in melee, on average you are set back long enough that you could've used smite anywhere from 2-3 times. 1 stack of guilty soul does just about as much damage as soulfire. Right now, in a warband setting, there is almost no point in ever casting soulfire. It's a straight dps loss versus hitting smite. Having the reduced cool down on Unstoppable Wrath has been helpful, but the Warrior Priest still has no real way to re-engage after root/snares/knockback/knockdown. By the time you get back into combat the fight is usually over. We use our RF to Hammer of Sigmar basically whatever is the closest target. Soulfire is already an AOE ability. It just needs reworked to actually be viable in a wrath build. It requires a two handed weapon so its only available to wrath and right now, its basically useless. Changing it doesn't add more AoE to the game. Its already here.

So I absolutely agree that we 2h DPS WP was significantly better pre heal patch(just needed something to help being kited) but I do not agree that any more AoE damage is needed in this game, if it was up to me all the AoE changes they have made since live would be removed. I know that will never happen so I have completely given up on RvR and simply never enter the lakes anymore or honestly ever even log in(only really play during events/weekend sc's).

Why cant there be something other than aoe damage that makes a class WB viable? How about some anti aoe abilities, wouldn't that fit the WP more buff/defensive style of play? Just something other that more dps aoe please.

I think that your opinion is a bit misplaced in this topic. The game having too much AoE in general has nothing to do with WP having not enough AoE to feel viable in the current meta.

What you might want to do is make a suggestion regarding overall AoE in the game and express how it might be changed, and then all of the folk that seem to have chosen this thread to voice their greivances about the general state of the game, rather than specifically WP within it, will have a place to discuss it.

[Endari]

I think that your opinion is a bit misplaced in this topic. The game having too much AoE in general has nothing to do with WP having not enough AoE to feel viable in the current meta.

What you might want to do is make a suggestion regarding overall AoE in the game and express how it might be changed, and then all of the folk that seem to have chosen this thread to voice their greivances about the general state of the game, rather than specifically WP within it, will have a place to discuss it.

No. My opinion is specifically about you asking for more AoE dps for the 2h DPS WP to be "WarBand Ready", just because I and a few others think that there is too much aoe dps in this game does not diminish my statement in any way. The mere fact that you can't seem to find a way to make a class "WarBand Ready" without adding aoe dps is a serious problem with this game.

Honestly does every spec from every class need to be "WarBand Ready"? The WP has 3 valid specs(though I really wish they would remove the shield spec) which is something many other classes can't say, 2 of which are just fine in warbands so if the 2h DPS spec is better at small man(was very good pre patch but mine is now permanently retired, R.I.P Awen, so I won't comment on its current state) maybe that's OK.

[live4treasure]

I think that your opinion is a bit misplaced in this topic. The game having too much AoE in general has nothing to do with WP having not enough AoE to feel viable in the current meta.

What you might want to do is make a suggestion regarding overall AoE in the game and express how it might be changed, and then all of the folk that seem to have chosen this thread to voice their greivances about the general state of the game, rather than specifically WP within it, will have a place to discuss it.

No. My opinion is specifically about you asking for more AoE dps for the 2h DPS WP to be "WarBand Ready", just because I and a few others think that there is too much aoe dps in this game does not diminish my statement in any way. The mere fact that you can't seem to find a way to make a class "WarBand Ready" without adding aoe dps is a serious problem with this game.

Honestly does every spec from every class need to be "WarBand Ready"? The WP has 3 valid specs(though I really wish they would remove the shield spec) which is something many other classes can't say, 2 of which are just fine in warbands so if the 2h DPS spec is better at small man(was very good pre patch but mine is now permanently retired, R.I.P Awen, so I won't comment on its current state) maybe that's OK.

I'm simply saying your complaint is off-topic and a derailment of the original post's purpose. It's not my concern whether there is too much AoE or too little of it. My message is that within the current state of the game, DPS WP feels incomplete and is short on aoe pressure to be viable in warbands. If you'd like to discuss whether the game should rely on AoE less or more, please make your own suggestion topic explaining your grievances and lay out some solutions to the problem you're seeing.

I won't reply to any further conversation on your specific topic of discussion for the reasons already stated, I'm afraid.

[Farrul]

I think that ship has sailed. Still the only melee without a gap closer which is telling. Don't expect anything.

As an order player i consider these melee Empire classes to be meta slaves. Kotbs buffbot without dps. WP salvation meta status quo, the other two WP specs deteriorated further with the healer patch.

The best advice is to either use the book as they want you to, or play something more worthile in terms of warband dps.

[live4treasure]

I think that ship has sailed. Still the only melee without a gap closer which is telling. Don't expect anything.

As an order player i consider these melee Empire classes to be meta slaves. Kotbs buffbot without dps. WP salvation meta status quo, the other two WP specs deteriorated further with the healer patch.

The best advice is to either use the book as they want you to, or play something more worthile in terms of warband dps.

I don't know whether any ships have sailed or not, nor am I asking for advice in this instance. I am simply providing feedback regarding balance patches, and leave the choices of whether or not to listen to that feedback to the team in charge of making balance changes.

Please understand, for any who is reading this thread, that this is a Suggestions and Feedback thread, aimed at the staff to read. It's not anyone's place to make determinations on what will or will not happen, nor is it the place to discuss your own personal grievances with the game at the large. The only thing that would be useful in this topic is a well thought through post on whether you think the specific suggestions in the OP are adequate for the current meta of the game and with reasons why; as well as alternative suggestions aimed at getting WP to a status of warband viability. It's not up for any of us to worry about whether it will or will not be implemented, as that is outside of our control.

[Endari]

I'm simply saying your complaint is off-topic and a derailment of the original post's purpose. It's not my concern whether there is too much AoE or too little of it. My message is that within the current state of the game, DPS WP feels incomplete and is short on aoe pressure to be viable in warbands. If you'd like to discuss whether the game should rely on AoE less or more, please make your own suggestion topic explaining your grievances and lay out some solutions to the problem you're seeing.

I won't reply to any further conversation on your specific topic of discussion for the reasons already stated, I'm afraid.

You ask for more aoe damage but saying no to more aoe damage is off topic? Just another player who only wants to press 2 buttons. PLAY A DIFFERENT CLASS if you want 2 buttons, the WL is calling you! Before the patch the 2h dps wp only needed some type of gap closer to be as good as a class could be in this game, you had to think before you popped wrath, did you want smite spam or do you save it for some real burst when needed? but no the devs just had to ruin it so you could have that 2 button play style and you are still not happy.

It's so frustrating to see what has happened to this game and my favorite spec the 2h dps wp, it was fun, it was challenging, sure you were not perfectly suited for warbands but again the wp has 3 valid specs so if you wanted in just respec or you know just deal with not being the top dps in the wb, while still offering buffs/some heals/rez/cleanse and some valid dps.

I need to stop talking about this as it just pisses me off.. oooo they added a new tactic so I never have to think about proper timing of ability use but I still feel useless FUH!

Think of something that is NOT aoe dps that could make the wrath wp more warband ready. I still think you replace soulfire with something that is anti aoe, maybe it would add a large cooldown to aoe abilities(how much fun would it be to push into that destro melee ball and just wreck their timing)? Remove the aoe interrupt from the WL and give it to the wrath wp as they have too much already Or soulfire now removes stealth and stops the use of instant stealth for a while?(only reason I every really cast that ability was to catch we's) Or something like you already mentioned make one of the prayers(righteousness would be my choice) the opposite of the dok snare covenant where the group gets a a 20% chance for a 20% speed boost on prayer proc, not creative but useful. Maybe something really boring like a standard melee dps aoe damage m2, at least you would have to use proper timing then rather than just spamming and you would have to chose to not run rampaging siphon.