Degradation of average player skill: why the Scenario system rework is urgently needed

[Martok]

The downfall of Scenarios has consistently stripped the playerbase of the best self-improvement tool the game had to offer for players who do not have the proper support of a guild/community.


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In my eyes, having a working and fair Scenario system should be the number 1 development priority for the game since it directly influences the average player skill/quality...

And player retention. However the time lag between when the issue was first stated as 'in the works' and now should tell everyone all they need to know.

[Murador]

Honestly though, I think even with a rework, things won’t change much. The mentality of how players approach MMOs has changed significantly since 2008, with the grouping and community aspects of MMOs being replaced by players seeking a more casual solo experience where they can play the game as the main character without having to put any effort into working with others. This is seen every weekend in the weekend sc event, where players will suggest every change under the sun to fix scenarios, with the only thing that's never on the table for consideration being them joining a group.

I disagree - I think the problem why people don't learn their classes is actually by being always in a group taking only fights they clearly win by numbers. I would argue the average solo roamer is vastly superior than the average player in RoR. Also if you look at WoW arena or any competitive game like starcraft II, AoE II, LoL the level has risen insanely. The problem is just the game doesn't have a SINGLE game mode you can play solo that is competitive in any way and the game encourages more numbers for everything.

there is no need to restrict grouping up (nor restricting solo/pugs tbf). premades and pugs and all this story is not a real issue (and never ever has been). thru years of weekly "premades vs pugs" threads its clear as night and day that there are no "premades" currently playing this game even, there are various "groups" of various levels of skills, and mostly, e.g. in 9 cases out of 10, those groups are not ranked ready.

This statement makes just zero sense. So you are saying all competitive games not queuing premades into solo players are wrong? Even the pug premades build a decent composition with geared players with higher RR. Queues need to be seperated - if then premades are empty because people only enjoyed steamrolling pugs - well then so be it.

1. Make scenarios solo/duo queue only - and no the discordant SC without any rewards is not it.
2. add a weekend event for premade scnerios where you ONLY face other premades. Make it ranked - give it rewards for the vict/triumph rings.
3. icentivize doing SCs with comparable rewards to RvR
4. MM trying to balance a hidden MMR and number of healer and tanks in some way.

The new player T4 SC experience will still be bad as you basically have less experience (not so bad as most RoR players are very casual compared to like WoW) and a lot less stats - and before anbody argues you can outplay it - its mathematically not possible if the SoV player has hands if you are in conq gear.

[Culexus]

Honestly though, I think even with a rework, things won’t change much. The mentality of how players approach MMOs has changed significantly since 2008, with the grouping and community aspects of MMOs being replaced by players seeking a more casual solo experience where they can play the game as the main character without having to put any effort into working with others. This is seen every weekend in the weekend sc event, where players will suggest every change under the sun to fix scenarios, with the only thing that's never on the table for consideration being them joining a group.

I disagree - I think the problem why people don't learn their classes is actually by being always in a group taking only fights they clearly win by numbers. I would argue the average solo roamer is vastly superior than the average player in RoR. Also if you look at WoW arena or any competitive game like starcraft II, AoE II, LoL the level has risen insanely. The problem is just the game doesn't have a SINGLE game mode you can play solo that is competitive in any way and the game encourages more numbers for everything.

By solo, I mean players that don't play with others as part of a coordinated group and/or have little to no social connections within the game. Solo roaming is it's own thing, with good solo roamers not usually being solo players. The solo player mentality that's taken over the server, and MMOs in general, is imo the main cause of this degradation of player skill.

Although I completely agree with what people have been saying in this and many other threads about how to fix scenarios, I don't really see how it will drastically change anything in the long run, and may even have the unintended consequence of making it worse.

Let's say that solo and premade are split, 2/2/2 is always up, barriers are removed, and guards are brought back with an effective comeback mechanic. Is that going to teach dps how to select targets, when to switch, and how to assist? Is the "I don't guard, I'm dps" tank going to learn how to guard, guardswap, and time-effective punts? Are solo players suddenly going to join Discord warbands in RvR and be willing to spend their playtime following the orders of the warband leader over joining a pugband and doing their own thing in the blob? We can only think about information that we're exposed to. If these players don't group up, they will never know what they are doing wrong, so they'll never be able to improve.

Once again, I 100% agree with Leftay's analysis and that of other contributors to this thread. But it still remains that even if scenarios get fixed, this is a group game where are large portion of the players don't want to group, so most will never learn how to play the game beyond a very basic level. And with the game full of small/dead guilds that can't make a meaningful impact on the game or build any sort of community for these players to potentially join, more and more players have joined the blob. This has been going on long enough that it's all many new players know of the game, out blob the enemy blob of solos with your blob of solos to win. Bonus points if you can follow a warband leader on your side with your blob without having to join the warband, extra bonus points if that warband is looking for players in /5 at the same time. Sadly, unless there is an organic change within the community itself, this may be the future of the server.

[Murador]

By solo, I mean players that don't play with others as part of a coordinated group and/or have little to no social connections within the game. Solo roaming is it's own thing, with good solo roamers not usually being solo players. The solo player mentality that's taken over the server, and MMOs in general, is imo the main cause of this degradation of player skill.

Although I completely agree with what people have been saying in this and many other threads about how to fix scenarios, I don't really see how it will drastically change anything in the long run, and may even have the unintended consequence of making it worse.

Let's say that solo and premade are split, 2/2/2 is always up, barriers are removed, and guards are brought back with an effective comeback mechanic. Is that going to teach dps how to select targets, when to switch, and how to assist? Is the "I don't guard, I'm dps" tank going to learn how to guard, guardswap, and time-effective punts? Are solo players suddenly going to join Discord warbands in RvR and be willing to spend their playtime following the orders of the warband leader over joining a pugband and doing their own thing in the blob? We can only think about information that we're exposed to. If these players don't group up, they will never know what they are doing wrong, so they'll never be able to improve.

There are quite some good solo roamers that prefer solo/small scale roaming over warbands playing more in the lower pop zones.

Well SCs will suddenly be more close - more fun - ofc there will still be the occasional stomp. I loved midtier SCs solo queuing - I tried a ton of builds - I even got intelligence and willpower set for AM at 35 which was maybe not smartest to preserve crests . At the moment you dont get even the chance to learn anything in most SCs.

That would be probably like you playing Starcraft II or Age of Empires II vs me - but my units have 20% more hp (not that it would matter) because I probably have tripple your APM + game sense + played 2000 hours.

I know some kind of progression is nice in a MMORPG but the gear gap is too big for a PvP game.