Degradation of average player skill: why the Scenario system rework is urgently needed

[leftayparxoun]

i can't confirm 1 win out of 10 in sq Oo
i can't confirm getting your face bashed in in SCs just because you are a new player.
i cannot remember "investing" into new players. we allow them to tag along, learn and have fun with us until they lose interest and leave.
i can't say that scenarios put me where I am today. it has mostly been soloing and playing with friends in small grps/exchanging ideas and strategies/doing testing with friends that taught me everything. and ofc learning from mistakes and opponents.

lots of your claims look wild to me and i dont trust them.

i see the main problem in being without guidance after leaving T1 and a power difference which is based on gear/knowledge. pairing newbs with vets leads to a frustrating experience that fends off newbs.
lots of veterans btw. also lack skills/knowledge (some of them still dont know to stop when gork sais so). some people just never learn.
itsa mix of unfair pairing due to low player numbers and casualism.
a typical disease of dead mmos
i whis you amazing day!

Thanks for the comment.

I actually wish more people spoke up about the topic I raised (i.e. if scenarios can help with skill transfer to new players, or if something else is the best way to approach that) instead of debating HOW to fix scenarios. That topic has been beaten to death over the last year in multiple threads already so I did not mean to spark discussion regarding that here. Even if you disagree with my claims, I'm glad to see a reply on the actual topic.

As for the content of your reply, I would first like to see where you are coming from:

Sure, the average winrate for a new player on scenarios might be higher than what I wrote here, but that winrate is completely at the mercy of whatever proper 6man group is queing at that time: If they are matched against a 6man they will most likely lose, if they are matched together with a 6man on their side they will probably win. And finally in the off-times where there are no premades running, then the winrate should theoretically be closer to 50%. But if you as a new player want to play scenarios at a specific time, if the odds are against your favor, you might as well win 0/30 games in a row (see Hazmy's example from earlier in this thread). From your personal experience, do you feel that individual scenarios are balanced in general or just on average?

Then there's the claim about us, the community, not needing to invest in new players.

i cannot remember "investing" into new players. we allow them to tag along, learn and have fun with us until they lose interest and leave.

Or, to put it more precisely, us not needing to actively teach new players. Do you think that the average new player is fully equipped to become as good as a skilled veteran by the activities they are already engaging in? Or perhaps do you believe that the average skill level of the playerbase is where it should be and that we should not strive to raise the competitiveness of the game higher than it currently is?

From what you write next, I'm inclined to believe that you think it's the former: that every new player has all the tools needed to better themselves and become as good at the game as the best veterans

i can't say that scenarios put me where I am today. it has mostly been soloing and playing with friends in small grps/exchanging ideas and strategies/doing testing with friends that taught me everything. and ofc learning from mistakes and opponents.

However, do you feel that this represents the way the average new player engages with the game or are cases such as yours perhaps the exception?

itsa mix of unfair pairing due to low player numbers and casualism.
a typical disease of dead mmos

I agree with your take here. The entire post was me trying to ring a bell at the increasing levels of "casualism" in ROR and to maybe try and identify where to find a possible solution. I agree of course that scenarios are currently plagued by low player numbers which in turn leads to unfair matchups (see the 3v4 discordant scenarios mentioned above in this thread).
However, I also believe that something can be done to fix that situation. RvR is currently booming with people compared to a year ago or so for example. If the proper incentives and foundation is provided for another game mode, that too can succeed. I do appreciate feedback like yours, because I also am not entirely sure that a revamp of the scenario system could help solve "casualism". A lot people seem to agree with my suggestion, but I'd really like to hear other opinions too on what the best way to tackle that issue would be.


Resigning ourselves into playing a "dead mmo" is not something I want to accept and I would like to see everyone do their best to make this game thrive. We might not be able to magically change player behavior or code ROR ourselves but I do think we should help the game in the best way we can, even if that help comes in the form of forum discussions hoping that the devs will notice them.

[Avanos]

I agree with the post, but honestly it feels like we’re just going in circles with the same frustrations. Just a few days ago, I found myself explaining to an order player after he pmed me: "how bad is destro chat now?", why so many on destro have such a negative view of their guild. The response I got was basically, destro does it too - so its fair game for us.

The thing is, this perception isn’t from one bad night or a single incident. It’s been built up over years of seeing the same patterns: avoiding meaningful fights, rolling over smaller groups with double/triple warband blobs, mass reporting a player if they find a counter to their tactics (rip ram punts), choosing pvd keeps or easy objectives instead of taking on equal fights. That’s why the reputation has stuck -it feels earned. And now, this style of play seems to be spreading across the wider player base, which makes things even worse.

From my own perspective, especially during NA times, RvR feels empty. There aren’t many solo roamers or small groups anymore; it’s just 60%-200% aao nonsense. One massive blob dominating the zone. This kind of gameplay gets old fast and it drives people away — I’ve seen plenty of players quit over it. And to be fair, both sides are guilty of feeding into this cycle. It’s not just one guild or one faction. But unless something changes, unless people actively try to break out of that pattern, the community is going to keep feeling the same way, and the game won’t move forward.

Devs don't really have the power to do anything about this in my opinion (technically they do, and so do GMs, but do they really want to make the changes?)
It falls on guild + warband leaders to take the charge to make sure that this does not happen.
These players could push for a healthier game - but they don't want it.

[Martok]

I agree with the post, but honestly it feels like we’re just going in circles with the same frustrations. Just a few days ago...(Post Truncated For Brevity).

Well said. I agree, every word. You accurately tap into the zeitgeist of the overall player mind-set as it has developed over the last few years.

Now for the Satirical Response, as required by law.

But, but, but, it is fun for an entire 24-man warband to chase one player down through the PVE zones to get the kill and then corpse-jump. That is the true measure of success man, that's what the game is about man.

[Dackle]

Well said OP. I did not read the whole thread, but why not a queue system similar to online poker. 1v1, 3v3, 6v6, 12 v 12, 24 v 24. Ranked or balanced, random, or next available. Sure the more filters you chose the less likely (maybe) it will pop. Most poker queues let you queue for multiple styles as well. From there you will see where the interest lies.

The other way we learned our skill sets was in t2 oRVR which is... Bolstering a 15+ and cramming 3wb v 3wb in a t2 zone with no outer wall... Bringing back t2 would be nice. There is easily a warband, on each side, of sub 30's, daily. Right now (time of writing) there are about 100 players rank 15-30ish.

[Martok]

Well said OP. I did not read the whole thread, but why not a queue system similar to online poker. 1v1, 3v3, 6v6, 12 v 12, 24 v 24.

That is an interesting idea, one I would support effort into. One of the most fun SC's I ever participated in occurred back on Live, just me on my SM and a 2 Hand specced Black Guard. We fought each other all across the map. Actual fun stuff.

A 3 v 3, 4 v 4, whatever, would be fun.

[Mordecaieth]

big +1 to this post, well written - made me realize that the thing I miss most is the old NA prime scenario scene from 2019-2021. I miss those days.