Grimmshimmer and fleshrenders

[Culexus]

The problem imo isn't regen builds, but that there's no active dueling scene on RoR like there was on live.

Like it or not, regen builds are the optimal build for a lot of classes for solo-roaming, as it gives classes that would normally struggle to solo-roam a fighting chance. As most fights are 1vx, regen allows classes to survive long enough to have a chance of winning, rather than it being a guaranteed death 99% of the time. Players run optimal builds and setups for 6-man and warbands, so I don't see any problem with solo-roamers doing the same. Also, let's face it, there are a lot of players who have an existential meltdown when they die in a 1v1. Giving them a bit of extra support with regen is probably for the greater good.

That being said, when a regen built solo-roamer actually manages to find a 1v1, the regen ruins it. Regen build vs non-regen build is a forgone conclusion most of the time, as it stat checks the fight before the first blow is struck. Those sweaty 1v1 moments where the whole fight comes down to a single mistimed gcd don't happen with regen builds, as the build allows the player to make many mistakes, but not worry, as the opponent can't do enough damage to take advantage of it.

If RoR had an active duel scene like live, regen builds would not be needed, as the player will always know they're getting a 1v1 rather than 1vx, and the nature of the dueling scene is that there are pre-established rules against such builds.

It's a real shame that Garden of Qu'aph was abandoned. It has so much potential to be a cool arena for 1v1 and 6v6 fights.

[Pahakukka]

I think that’s the thing that annoys me most with these items. They dumb down the builds and enable setups that are essentially the same no matter the class. It doesn’t matter if the player makes mistakes, because high mitigation combined with high regen carries them through.

Then the game ends up with regen SLs who never leave the green zone until it’s ultra safe to do so, armor-stacked defensive Sov White Lions with red arpen who just send the kitty at you and may or may not even attack themselves. ASWs with all armor bonuses maxed, regen WEs, Monstro Maras spinning away in hulker setups. Toughness Magus/Engis facetanking while spamming dots not taking a single step to kite or cc opponent. List goes on.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_sBpKG2Lc3c?feature=share is a good example of your typical defensive gameplay. Thats my magus in old def setup. Ran it few days when the snb tank soloroaming thing was the newest hot thing. Take a note how im alt tabbed for first 10s and then using arrows to turn as if i recall right, i was eating at same time... Nobody in their right mind can say this to be peak performance of 1v1 scene.


All of these fights are essentially the same. There’s minimal input from the player, and the specs carry themselves with no real counter other than facing a similar setup (which just leads to a tedious, endless fight).

[Sanctific]

Firstly - regen items are sufficiently meaningful for solo roaming only, which is a very nieche gameplay and which, most often than not, is being practiced by high-RR & very well geared players (or super experienced). When one gets to sov-level of gear - its the point when they fine-tune their character, min-max it, shape it in accordnace to their preferred playstyle, but thats pretty much it, they've already reached their peak in terms of the class power (not talking about the "pilot" skills, lets leave it outside of this conversartion).

Now, my point is - when one reaches max power (rr/gear) with their character, then it becomes apparent that ROR doesnt provide equal opportunities to solo roam (or rather - be equally successful at it) for every class out there. That's exactly where regen items become meaningful for those classes which are less solo roaming-oriented than the other ones - grimshimmer & such provide a filler to the "gap". Yeah, there are some classes that become OP with regen items (WE, magus, engi, s&b WS-oriented IB are the most evident ones) but...they are OP already in solo roaming, with or without regen items.

So, the bottom line of the above (at least subjectively) - yeah, regen items may make certain classes more OP than they are even without regen stuff, yet regen gear provides a chance to successfully practice solo roaming for those classes which would struggle to kill anyone at all in a fair duel in lakes (vs an equally BIS/near-BIS opponent).

[Illuminati]

Firstly - regen items are sufficiently meaningful for solo roaming only, which is a very nieche gameplay and which, most often than not, is being practiced by high-RR & very well geared players (or super experienced). When one gets to sov-level of gear - its the point when they fine-tune their character, min-max it, shape it in accordnace to their preferred playstyle, but thats pretty much it, they've already reached their peak in terms of the class power (not talking about the "pilot" skills, lets leave it outside of this conversartion).

Now, my point is - when one reaches max power (rr/gear) with their character, then it becomes apparent that ROR doesnt provide equal opportunities to solo roam (or rather - be equally successful at it) for every class out there. That's exactly where regen items become meaningful for those classes which are less solo roaming-oriented than the other ones - grimshimmer & such provide a filler to the "gap". Yeah, there are some classes that become OP with regen items (WE, magus, engi, s&b WS-oriented IB are the most evident ones) but...they are OP already in solo roaming, with or without regen items.

So, the bottom line of the above (at least subjectively) - yeah, regen items may make certain classes more OP than they are even without regen stuff, yet regen gear provides a chance to successfully practice solo roaming for those classes which would struggle to kill anyone at all in a fair duel in lakes (vs an equally BIS/near-BIS opponent).

This.

I view heal over time items in the class of absorbs, immunities, and avoidance. Some classes have these capabilities in silly amounts (e.g. KOTBS damage reduction, BG Parry, etc.) and would be impossible to stalemate if defensive/HOT gear didn't exist. Honestly, if you get into a undergeared/underleveled warband with weak/no heals, I put on a few jewels to survive here and there and adjust my playstyle.

If the Dev team decides to reduce the overall effectiveness of HOT equip, they should consider absorbs, immunities, avoidance and especially abilities that bypass those (armpen tactics, crazy skills that avoid resistances and armor).

[Caduceus]

Solo roaming/small-scale roaming isn't "niche" at all. It's a crucial part of a healthy RvR scene. Players need something to do during off-hours, and somewhere to go when the lakes are zergy.

Currently, it's being spoiled by the fact that normal players cannot compete AT ALL with regen builds.

[Sinisterror]

Regen is lowest form of specs. And Why it's so powerful in RoR is that they have changed all the formula's from original game, slowed gameplay(GCD) from 8 instant skills in 10+ seconds to now 6 skills in 10+seconds. I dont how RoR calculates dmg or cant even remember what/how they changed how toughness functions.

Is that why there is not Fortitude in the game? Well it exists but not really. If fortitude suddenly existed in this version of the game, lol the dmg from rr80 bis dps against full toughness/fortitude tank would be 10-100dmg per skill probably: D

Regen Obviously gets more powerful when you make the game 25% Slower, and not even potions/morales are off Gcd which means you used to be able to take both Heal Pots, Absorb Pot and Even attack enemy all at same time! If we Throw Morale there as well and 1 Ap pots that is now 10 Seconds vs 1second before

So its not hard to figure out why Auto attack is 30% of kill dmg on single target, because its passively happening while doing other things. Same goes for Regen, It rewards sloppy gameplay because you just need to exist to win.

Bring Back the original dmg/Defense calculations. In Live Some skills were "special" and got double Offensive contribution from stats but enemy's toughness was doubled against these attacks. That is how you make Skills matter and feel Different.

There is no reason that if i hit target dummy, that Slice and Pierce Armour both has same dmg.. You have simplified and homogenized This game too much. Youve given up on the armour it feels like when there is set bonuses like " 10% Chance on being hit to increase armour by 350 "

Really? And what i see on killboard, is that those Procs on darkpromise wpns are so bad, i mean truely so bad like how did this happen? We want more freedom and options to choose. Make Crit amounts and Proc variety same as it was on live = Everyone got acces to basically every proc in some form.

[nocturnalguest]

Guys, seriously. In any PvP MMO "soloing" is all about selfsustain/avoidances/rolls/stealth/etc. I share your living a dream of skillful solo/1vX gameplay which would only demand management from a player but it has never ever been the case.

I truly dont mind removing items that help selfsustain however it will do jack sh*t on meta shifts, mark my word. Rock-paper-scissors design wont change cause of that its just class composition will shift a little bit into dps ranged healers and thats it.

The only true solution is scope swap into balancing around 1vX giving every class everything (cc, engage/disengage, selfsustain/heals etc). And this not happening afaik. Asking for something else is half-measures which i believe not gonna do much even if implemented.

Regen is lowest form of specs. And Why it's so powerful in RoR is that they have changed all the formula's from original game, slowed gameplay(GCD) from 8 instant skills in 10+ seconds to now 6 skills in 10+seconds. I dont how RoR calculates dmg or cant even remember what/how they changed how toughness functions.

Is that why there is not Fortitude in the game? Well it exists but not really. If fortitude suddenly existed in this version of the game, lol the dmg from rr80 bis dps against full toughness/fortitude tank would be 10-100dmg per skill probably: D

Regen Obviously gets more powerful when you make the game 25% Slower, and not even potions/morales are off Gcd which means you used to be able to take both Heal Pots, Absorb Pot and Even attack enemy all at same time! If we Throw Morale there as well and 1 Ap pots that is now 10 Seconds vs 1second before

So its not hard to figure out why Auto attack is 30% of kill dmg on single target, because its passively happening while doing other things. Same goes for Regen, It rewards sloppy gameplay because you just need to exist to win.

Bring Back the original dmg/Defense calculations. In Live Some skills were "special" and got double Offensive contribution from stats but enemy's toughness was doubled against these attacks. That is how you make Skills matter and feel Different.

There is no reason that if i hit target dummy, that Slice and Pierce Armour both has same dmg.. You have simplified and homogenized This game too much. Youve given up on the armour it feels like when there is set bonuses like " 10% Chance on being hit to increase armour by 350 "

Really? And what i see on killboard, is that those Procs on darkpromise wpns are so bad, i mean truely so bad like how did this happen? We want more freedom and options to choose. Make Crit amounts and Proc variety same as it was on live = Everyone got acces to basically every proc in some form.

Actually this in general very well said. Its either revamp or nothing. I dont agree with each word, but the message as a whole is totally on point

[Sanctific]

Solo roaming/small-scale roaming isn't "niche" at all. It's a crucial part of a healthy RvR scene. Players need something to do during off-hours, and somewhere to go when the lakes are zergy.

Currently, it's being spoiled by the fact that normal players cannot compete AT ALL with regen builds.

Small scale is relatively common, yes, but not solo roaming.

As someone who exclusively solo roams on all of my characters - there are not more than ~15 roamers on a faction (SOLO roamers, mind you) in a zone which fields 200+ players on each side respectively, you even get to know them by names soon enough (if you play in a zone for longer than 30 min). Sounds pretty niche to me.