A few idea's for SC's

[Dabbart]

Howdy folks, so I've had a few thoughts on SCs, and as requested in another thread, decided to put em on paper and get the convo rolling. Hell, we might actually come up with a halfway non-retarded idea...

Spoiler:

I am entirely unaware if this is possible to code. I'm just spitballing for how I would set it up if I could wave a magic wand. All of these are based on my personal experience as mainly a PUGer on this server, I found my initial guild far too "hardcore" for my tastes. I do run premades, but they tend to be pick-ups simply so that we have the right party comp. I have roomates with kids, so vent and TS are difficult w/o a headset, and the headset precludes my ability to stop the little ones from setting themselves on fire... Therefore PUGing tends to be the best way for me to enjoy this game. Not to mention I can actually run my class the way I want too w/o getting flamed for it. /me loves ignore button

1: No entry to a SC that has registered more than 400 combined points, 300 points for 1 side, or after 7 minutes have elapsed.
This is quite simple, and kinda my biggest pet peeve. When the SC is more than half over, stop sending people into that SC. Yea, it's kinda nice when you enter a SC and get a win for 8 seconds of standing there, and vica versa it's not like it takes up tons of time. But it is frustrating, when you get 3-4 entries into dead/expiring SCs in a row.

2: Disallow Premades to outnumber PUGs
Organize the SC so that if it takes a 6man for one side, it searches for and attempts to input an equal number of Premade's from the opposite side. Hopefully, if we can stop the dual premades v. PUGs the domination might be lessened. This would be the most effective at helping to deal with the multiple smaller premades(the 2's, 3's and 4's that I see) This would mean that if a 6man comes in from dessie, the system would want either a 6man, 3 2mans, 2 3mans, 1 4man+2man, etc from order to match. Obviously, there would have to be a margin of error or else odd groups will have a hard time getting pops.

3: Equal distribution of PUG/Premade
This one is just a random thought, and I actually am entirely unsure if it would help at all. But forcing the game to accept an equal number of PUGs whenever it takes in a premade(for both sides) might help ALOT. I am entirely against seperating PUGs and Premades. But disallowing the game to be directly Premade vs PUG? I think that would help.

4: 1 of each archtype in every SC(Healer/Tank/DPS
Now, this sytem is inherently flawed, since the one "healer" that comes in could be in DPS spec(and good for them!), but it would at least give each side half a chance. And since it is only 3 that is required, the number shouldn't impact the frequency of pops drastically.

5: Best In Class Rewards
Top Healing, Damage, KB, and (eventually) top damage mitigated. This would be a great way to send reward and encourage players to team up and be prepared. The "rewards" could be anything from crafting materials, to gold, to an extra medal/medallion whatever. Do this for BOTH sides(winning and losing) and imo, you have a greater chance of getting people to WANT to fight and do extremely well even on the losing side. Note: the reward would need to not be entirely powerful obviously, since it could be fairly easy to farm, and certain classes will be all but left out for a period of time.

6: Attempt to fill the SC(12 people) before start
It gets frustrating that the SCs are almost always unfilled when the ticker reaches 0 and the SC starts. Maybe this is more of a NA issue than EU though. But possibly force the SC to delay it's start until at least 6 people are IN the SC, not just having queued...

Thoughts? And yes. I am aware 2 and 3 are very similar. But they are technically different points.

[hartmnj1]

I certainly agree with you on point one, regardless if I would be winning or losing. I came into the SC to rvr; not to buff up, potion, mount, and then have the scenario end. It can be a buzz kill when SC's aren't popping regularly.

Points two and three...I appreciate your ideas. My personal idea is to disallow premades, or only allow people to be in queue for one or the other, but not both. If you are set-up for group content, you have to take it, and square off against other premades. I have many thoughts about how premades can harm a community this small, and am starting to see people suggesting boycotts of SC's, waiting the timer out in a SC when they can, or worse yet, not queue at all. It has even developed into today people telling 31 and under not to queue because they are a liability. It isn't fun playing 10 matches to get 3 medallions. And please, spare the argument about creating a premade...making a group of 6 does not make you equal to other premades in terms of gear and skill.

Point three. I am curious as to why you don't want premades and pug's separated? Is it in the event of one premade versus another and 6 pugs on each side type of deal? That would create more balance to a system that could be perceived to be slightly broken. (I am trying to be diplomatic here to the community and to the devs who are doing a better job than Mythic.) In a way, I think we both are talking about two sides of a coin. Feel free to correct my assumption.

Point four. I wonder how much of a coding nightmare that would, let alone, what do you you do
with support dok's/wp's who who buff, heal and dps? It would be nice to know that you would get at least one healer, but I wonder how queue times would be affected?

Point five. I swore there was something like this in the VERY early days of Warhammer. Correct me if I am wrong. I think a fair bonus would be an additional medallion.

Point six. I can agree with you about this one...especially being an EST player. It always feels like I missed a fight or have to log when it gets good. Maybe we should try scheduling a NA event at some point.

[Deehorsey]

Good ideas, but point 5 would be catastrophic.

As if people don't play for scoreboard enough, this would forcibly have players ignoring objectives (though they mostly do already). Utility specs would be hugely undervalued.

A lot of people have mentioned swtor, which I believe actually did a pretty good job of their medal distribution. Medals were rewarded for healing/damage/protection (benchmarks of 75k, 150k, 300k, etc), but also had things like killing blows, completing objectives (offense and defense) and a few other things. Oh, and also, MVP votes at the end of the match.

It doesn't matter how any such system is implemented, because there will always be class-related-bias for who can score the most medals. I'm a fan of more rewards, but I don't think this is the way to do it unless it can really be fleshed out to create somewhat equal opportunity for all classes.

[hartmnj1]

A lot of people have mentioned swtor, which I believe actually did a pretty good job of their medal distribution. Medals were rewarded for healing/damage/protection (benchmarks of 75k, 150k, 300k, etc), but also had things like killing blows, completing objectives (offense and defense) and a few other things. Oh, and also, MVP votes at the end of the match.

It is a nice feature, because even if you lose, but still contributed in some way, you got some reward. That might be my biggest issue with the current system, no matter how you do but lose, you get nothing...just thinking out loud. I would be interested in seeing wins cut down to 3 medals and allow categories of feats the ability to be medals earned.

[Simmox]

more SC's Choice would be to my taste
theres quite a few we havent seen yet.

an idea i ponder is to have INF aquired from the various SC's for that pairing
although some may say it would detract from the RVR experience.
however,if loot and armor drops are reiniatialised in RVR in the future, that would add some flavour.lots of the RVR system is still unavailable as yet.

Certainly dont like the idea of culling premades.but for the life of me i cant understand why some of them even bother?

so a Premade Queing bracket could work,much to the howls of protest i can hear already.
and a random Q bracket
but a limit would have to be set,what consitutes a premade?
how many?
Are me and my 3 guild buddies random queing considered a premade?
then were gonna get complaints from the premade grps how cant get a game,as there are no pops at x time of day

whats the limit on queing as a group? is it 12 players?
maybe a 6 man limit on party Queing could be arranged.over that goes into the prem bracket.

dont really have anything to add to the other points raised,not overly concerned with the state of scenario's,you win some ,you lose some

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

I certainly agree with you on point one, regardless if I would be winning or losing. I came into the SC to rvr; not to buff up, potion, mount, and then have the scenario end. It can be a buzz kill when SC's aren't popping regularly.

Points two and three...I appreciate your ideas. My personal idea is to disallow premades, or only allow people to be in queue for one or the other, but not both. If you are set-up for group content, you have to take it, and square off against other premades. I have many thoughts about how premades can harm a community this small, and am starting to see people suggesting boycotts of SC's, waiting the timer out in a SC when they can, or worse yet, not queue at all. It has even developed into today people telling 31 and under not to queue because they are a liability. It isn't fun playing 10 matches to get 3 medallions. And please, spare the argument about creating a premade...making a group of 6 does not make you equal to other premades in terms of gear and skill.

Point three. I am curious as to why you don't want premades and pug's separated? Is it in the event of one premade versus another and 6 pugs on each side type of deal? That would create more balance to a system that could be perceived to be slightly broken. (I am trying to be diplomatic here to the community and to the devs who are doing a better job than Mythic.) In a way, I think we both are talking about two sides of a coin. Feel free to correct my assumption.

Point four. I wonder how much of a coding nightmare that would, let alone, what do you you do
with support dok's/wp's who who buff, heal and dps? It would be nice to know that you would get at least one healer, but I wonder how queue times would be affected?

Point five. I swore there was something like this in the VERY early days of Warhammer. Correct me if I am wrong. I think a fair bonus would be an additional medallion.

Point six. I can agree with you about this one...especially being an EST player. It always feels like I missed a fight or have to log when it gets good. Maybe we should try scheduling a NA event at some point.

PT 1: Thanks.

PT2-3: I agree entirely. The mentality that you are a detriment if you are not specc'd/geared/lvled properly, albeit entirely correct, forgets the fact that you are playing a video game for enjoyment. It will always be that way as the hardcores have spent the time and energy and are annoyed that those who haven't want to "leech" off of them. This isn't actually the case 90% of the time, but 1 case will cement it in peoples mind forever forward, and that is simply the nature of humans.

PT3: Technically you don't have to be in a premade to get into the same SC. I see it all the time, and have made a few friends simply from ending up PUGing in SC after SC with each other. Players will always seek to exploit the weaker base, if you disallow premades, I garunte you a bunch of people will just que for a particular SC solo, and then reform with however many made it in.

But, generally, I simply don't want the seperation of player base! I WANT to fight the high end guys. How else will I get better?

PT 4: Yea, I was never a person who excelled at coding. As I said, this was all magic wand stuff.

PT 5: I don't know about that. And to Deehorsey and hartmnj1, the reward would need to be balanced. Medallions would be OP, but tokens to buy consumables, or after 200k you get a special cloak. I am not the kind of player that will kill 10k of something for a cloak. There are a lot who do. I think this feature would provide a lot of fun and reason to grind SC after SC for a significant portion of the playerbase.

PT6: Any player driven events would be awesome. Regardless of timezone, but yes. NA needs some serious help. The community could do with actually trying to be a community at times...

[daniilpb]

Howdy folks, so I've had a few thoughts on SCs, and as requested in another thread, decided to put em on paper and get the convo rolling. Hell, we might actually come up with a halfway non-retarded idea...

Spoiler:

I am entirely unaware if this is possible to code. I'm just spitballing for how I would set it up if I could wave a magic wand. All of these are based on my personal experience as mainly a PUGer on this server, I found my initial guild far too "hardcore" for my tastes. I do run premades, but they tend to be pick-ups simply so that we have the right party comp. I have roomates with kids, so vent and TS are difficult w/o a headset, and the headset precludes my ability to stop the little ones from setting themselves on fire... Therefore PUGing tends to be the best way for me to enjoy this game. Not to mention I can actually run my class the way I want too w/o getting flamed for it. /me loves ignore button

1: No entry to a SC that has registered more than 400 combined points, 300 points for 1 side, or after 7 minutes have elapsed.
This is quite simple, and kinda my biggest pet peeve. When the SC is more than half over, stop sending people into that SC. Yea, it's kinda nice when you enter a SC and get a win for 8 seconds of standing there, and vica versa it's not like it takes up tons of time. But it is frustrating, when you get 3-4 entries into dead/expiring SCs in a row.

2: Disallow Premades to outnumber PUGs
Organize the SC so that if it takes a 6man for one side, it searches for and attempts to input an equal number of Premade's from the opposite side. Hopefully, if we can stop the dual premades v. PUGs the domination might be lessened. This would be the most effective at helping to deal with the multiple smaller premades(the 2's, 3's and 4's that I see) This would mean that if a 6man comes in from dessie, the system would want either a 6man, 3 2mans, 2 3mans, 1 4man+2man, etc from order to match. Obviously, there would have to be a margin of error or else odd groups will have a hard time getting pops.

3: Equal distribution of PUG/Premade
This one is just a random thought, and I actually am entirely unsure if it would help at all. But forcing the game to accept an equal number of PUGs whenever it takes in a premade(for both sides) might help ALOT. I am entirely against seperating PUGs and Premades. But disallowing the game to be directly Premade vs PUG? I think that would help.

4: 1 of each archtype in every SC(Healer/Tank/DPS
Now, this sytem is inherently flawed, since the one "healer" that comes in could be in DPS spec(and good for them!), but it would at least give each side half a chance. And since it is only 3 that is required, the number shouldn't impact the frequency of pops drastically.

5: Best In Class Rewards
Top Healing, Damage, KB, and (eventually) top damage mitigated. This would be a great way to send reward and encourage players to team up and be prepared. The "rewards" could be anything from crafting materials, to gold, to an extra medal/medallion whatever. Do this for BOTH sides(winning and losing) and imo, you have a greater chance of getting people to WANT to fight and do extremely well even on the losing side. Note: the reward would need to not be entirely powerful obviously, since it could be fairly easy to farm, and certain classes will be all but left out for a period of time.

6: Attempt to fill the SC(12 people) before start
It gets frustrating that the SCs are almost always unfilled when the ticker reaches 0 and the SC starts. Maybe this is more of a NA issue than EU though. But possibly force the SC to delay it's start until at least 6 people are IN the SC, not just having queued...

Thoughts? And yes. I am aware 2 and 3 are very similar. But they are technically different points.

I hope you know that 90% of new functions which you want can't be added because they weren't in original WAR. You must understand that devs can only restore old game with some changes. Devs are just a group of people with no resources to create something originaly new. You need a real team, game studio to implement new functions and create a new game

[Dabbart]

I hope you know that 90% of new functions which you want can't be added because they weren't in original WAR. You must understand that devs can only restore old game with some changes. Devs are just a group of people with no resources to create something originaly new. You need a real team, game studio to implement new functions and create a new game

For the third time, I am unaware if any of this is possible. It's all magic wand waving idea's. A dev posted in another thread asking if anyone had any idea's for SC balancing to make a new thread. That is what I did.

If the game stays exactly as it is forever on, I will be playing it for an exceptionally long time to come. I love warhammer, and this game captures RvR exceptionally well for me. It is a constant challenge.

Anything the Devs add, reinstate, fix, correct, rectify, rebalance, or take a great massive dump upon, I will play and strive to enjoy. But as long as my input is asked for, I will provide it. For the record, this was written with tongue in cheek. I have been told my writing style can be taken aggressively at times. And text rarely conveys sarcasm.

Cheers