Slayer/Choppa armor set variety

[Darosh]

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you could have done the same, but no you just to be a troll or are guy with no attitude instead of been grown up...looked through your last post. seems like you just can provokate if you disagree with someone and be nice if you want something.....behavouir of a child.

Why would I provide evidence for a claim I didn't make, let alone disagree with?
Moreso, what exactly do I want and am acting nice for? ~ Give me some context for that one, kinda baffling, tbh; I try to be consistent, whether I am consistently a **** or not isn't relevant to me in that regard.

I certainly won't apologize or 'feel bad' for challenging a badly composed OP ~ have a look through the balance proposals, there are plenty of posts I'd vividly disagree with, yet wouldn't tear on like I do here, why? Simple: basic effort and a lack of mindless absolutes.

Mind you, if I were a mere troll I'd be in it for shits and giggles... I wouldn't waste my time giving hints as to how altercations with cunts like me could be avoided.

Bleh.

hmm i see you got your principles, even i dont like them. im sure facts have the porblem they are mostly absolutes cause thats what facts do, do they? but what so ever your principles and mine wont go along.
so you agree with the topic? cause otherwise you could shatter these absolutes

See bits in '>><<' below, lacking patience to fiddle around with quotes/colors while on the tablet... atleast no autocorrection to deal with, lol.
Absolutes (as a figure of speech) are not facts, but overly emotive and generalized statements lacking any tangible metric or explanation.

Spoiler:

First off I'd like to clarify that this is not supposed to be a whine-thread but rather a discussion if any of the named sets have any viability whatsoever.

Let's look at sets like Dominator, Ruin and Redeye just to get an idea if they are of any use for a Choppa apart from 2piece strengh splits like every other set.
The truth is: Choppas can not get tanky even with the most defensive sets due to their class mechanic. >> What's the premise here? Pure tankyness? What format are we talking about exactly? << But if you throw away all of your offensive potential to have underwhelming set bonuses like 3%crit reduction(3 piece redeye) >> IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that? Elaborate (and maybe compare to other ctbc sources/ tackle relevance in potency). <<, 55 toughness (5 piece ruin) >> Entry level gear is supposed to be relevant? << or the glorious 5% crit reduction >> Again, ctbc, elaborate; what defensive stat would you fancy more? << on 6 piece DOM you'll be of no use both defensively AND offensively. >> Trading sustain for pewpew ~ works as intended, no? << The only viable defensive stats for Slayer/Chopp are parry/disrupt/evade which are nowhere to be seen >> Overlord is a figment of our collective imagination. << even on the supposedly defensive sets (apart from duelist - 10%parry/evade/disrupt proc and 5%parry on 5 piece which makes it the only viable defensive set and proves to be quite awesome at lvl29.)

It seems to be the case that those sets were just not made for Choppa but for all the other MDPS that might have a more tanky build >> All of which trade pewpew for sustain. What is your metric? << that actually can make use of those mediocre set bonuses.
This effectively limits Slayer/Chopps to wear the few purely offensive sets as splits or the (imo) subpar 6piece CONQ that some >> Here you point out your opinion and drop the absolutes for a moment, see the difference? << people prefer over strengh splits for the 5% crit.
But no one would wear 6 piece DOM or 6 piece ruin if they have a choice (and any clue). >>Back at it... Skimming through the armory tells me that Dominator is being fancied quite alot [in all variations; 2/6 to 6/6], whereas Ruin is naturally only part of crit stacks [i.e. 2/5, 2pc str + crit on shoulders] as it's entry level gear...<<

Additionally, even though this seems to be a hot topic >> Meh? WS as hinted at below or gear changes? << for some reason, the Slayer/Choppa does not get a WS bonus on Redeye like all other MDPS do (you'd ask yourself why but thats not the topic here) >> IIRC, Wargrimnir stated that he'd rather not give Redeye too much potential for BiS because it's a sidegrade through PvE, correct me if I am wrong. << which makes the set utter garbage due to heaps of useless defensive stats and way too few offensive stats which doesn't even allow for interesting splits - 3%crit reduction on 2 piece, 400 armor on 4 piece. >> Pretty emotive, lacks elaboration ~ ctbc and 2/3 of a green armorpot/(Dwarf [master race] tactic) that stacks with an actual armor pot. <<
I could go on explaining >> You should rather start with it. << why almost all defensive stats are completely wasted stats on a choppa but would rather like to get to that in the discussion to keep this short. >> How considerate of you. SL/CH class mechanic cuts armor and resis by half while in berserk, you can drop rage and nullify mali ~ now, with the mali being (exploitable; e.g.: CC, yet) managble and temporary, how come stats that are unaffected are worse than two stats that are essentially irrelevant as far as setboni go (besides BL base resis, Anni/Merc/Ruin (entry level gear) resis setboni and DOM/WI armor setboni)? <<
So all I'm trying to point out is the very much lacking variety of usefull/wearable sets for Slayers/Chopps due to the fact that most sets are not specifically made for one class but rather are the same for all MDPS which results in heaps of useless sets for Chopps. >> The only thing I took away so far is that you dislike -ctbc, there was little mention - but a sentence and some jabs - of the standardization of gear ~ which isn't unique to mdps either. << To add insult to injury the only class specific set Choppa has would be the Redeye >> How so? I figure you refer to the set name? Kinda lost here, as Redeye shares skins and stats (but armor setboni and some other fluff) alike with other mdps sets, too. << that is actually intentionally way worse than for other MDPS. >> Elaborate (* 'intentionally', source?). <<

To give Slayers and Choppas more room to play around with gear and different builds I'd love to see the overly defensive sets like DOM to change to a more usefull one since it is likely not worn by a single player >> See above/armory. << which is a waste of creative possibilities imo. And inbefore "just because you want it..." or "Choppas can be viable therefor any proposed change is heresy" I'd like to clarify that I'm not proposing to give Slayers/Chopps just more stats for free but making the completely unused sets like DOM wearable >> See above/armory, again. << so you'd have more creative freedom than choosing your 2piece strengh split of choice >> You could even go Overlord 2pc for the avoidance, and ducttape together a pure -ctbc stack with Dominator, RF, Anni and Redeye; yadayada, to free up RR in form of FS and then pump it into w/e, or go full utility with the AP removal proc on BL, offensive with haste stacks, yadayada. There are already plenty of things to work with, what is your metric? <<

Abbd.:
In hindsight... how come you skip so many sets (i.e.: jump through power tiers as if it would't matter; as part of your 'argumentation' you are pointing out 'inferior' stats...) in your example? See, if you compiled stuff you could keep it short and yet still cover all sets. Additionally, if variety within the pool of available sets was non-existant, a 1:1 stat comparision between all available sets would yield objectively convincing data, no ?

TLDR: Throw people a bone and they might have fun biting.

E: Spelling + a sentence-ish above*. Note: I think I mixed up Overlord and Imperator setbonus, anyhow it's one of those fancy, grindy sets.

[MiauMio]

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Why would I provide evidence for a claim I didn't make, let alone disagree with?
Moreso, what exactly do I want and am acting nice for? ~ Give me some context for that one, kinda baffling, tbh; I try to be consistent, whether I am consistently a **** or not isn't relevant to me in that regard.

I certainly won't apologize or 'feel bad' for challenging a badly composed OP ~ have a look through the balance proposals, there are plenty of posts I'd vividly disagree with, yet wouldn't tear on like I do here, why? Simple: basic effort and a lack of mindless absolutes.

Mind you, if I were a mere troll I'd be in it for shits and giggles... I wouldn't waste my time giving hints as to how altercations with cunts like me could be avoided.

Bleh.

hmm i see you got your principles, even i dont like them. im sure facts have the porblem they are mostly absolutes cause thats what facts do, do they? but what so ever your principles and mine wont go along.
so you agree with the topic? cause otherwise you could shatter these absolutes

See bits in '>><<' below, lacking patience to fiddle around with quotes/colors while on the tablet... atleast no autocorrection to deal with, lol.
Absolutes (as a figure of speech) are not facts, but overly emotive and generalized statements lacking any tangible metric or explanation.

Spoiler:

First off I'd like to clarify that this is not supposed to be a whine-thread but rather a discussion if any of the named sets have any viability whatsoever.

Let's look at sets like Dominator, Ruin and Redeye just to get an idea if they are of any use for a Choppa apart from 2piece strengh splits like every other set.
The truth is: Choppas can not get tanky even with the most defensive sets due to their class mechanic. >> What's the premise here? Pure tankyness? What format are we talking about exactly? << But if you throw away all of your offensive potential to have underwhelming set bonuses like 3%crit reduction(3 piece redeye) >> IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that? Elaborate (and maybe compare to other ctbc sources/ tackle relevance in potency). <<, 55 toughness (5 piece ruin) >> Entry level gear is supposed to be relevant? << or the glorious 5% crit reduction >> Again, ctbc, elaborate; what defensive stat would you fancy more? << on 6 piece DOM you'll be of no use both defensively AND offensively. >> Trading sustain for pewpew ~ works as intended, no? << The only viable defensive stats for Slayer/Chopp are parry/disrupt/evade which are nowhere to be seen >> Overlord is a figment of our collective imagination. << even on the supposedly defensive sets (apart from duelist - 10%parry/evade/disrupt proc and 5%parry on 5 piece which makes it the only viable defensive set and proves to be quite awesome at lvl29.)

It seems to be the case that those sets were just not made for Choppa but for all the other MDPS that might have a more tanky build >> All of which trade pewpew for sustain. What is your metric? << that actually can make use of those mediocre set bonuses.
This effectively limits Slayer/Chopps to wear the few purely offensive sets as splits or the (imo) subpar 6piece CONQ that some >> Here you point out your opinion and drop the absolutes for a moment, see the difference? << people prefer over strengh splits for the 5% crit.
But no one would wear 6 piece DOM or 6 piece ruin if they have a choice (and any clue). >>Back at it... Skimming through the armory tells me that Dominator is being fancied quite alot [in all variations; 2/6 to 6/6], whereas Ruin is naturally only part of crit stacks [i.e. 2/5, 2pc str + crit on shoulders] as it's entry level gear...<<

Additionally, even though this seems to be a hot topic >> Meh? WS as hinted at below or gear changes? << for some reason, the Slayer/Choppa does not get a WS bonus on Redeye like all other MDPS do (you'd ask yourself why but thats not the topic here) >> IIRC, Wargrimnir stated that he'd rather not give Redeye too much potential for BiS because it's a sidegrade through PvE, correct me if I am wrong. << which makes the set utter garbage due to heaps of useless defensive stats and way too few offensive stats which doesn't even allow for interesting splits - 3%crit reduction on 2 piece, 400 armor on 4 piece. >> Pretty emotive, lacks elaboration ~ ctbc and 2/3 of a green armorpot/(Dwarf [master race] tactic) that stacks with an actual armor pot. <<
I could go on explaining >> You should rather start with it. << why almost all defensive stats are completely wasted stats on a choppa but would rather like to get to that in the discussion to keep this short. >> How considerate of you. SL/CH class mechanic cuts armor and resis by half while in berserk, you can drop rage and nullify mali ~ now, with the mali being (exploitable; e.g.: CC, yet) managble and temporary, how come stats that are unaffected are worse than two stats that are essentially irrelevant as far as setboni go (besides BL base resis, Anni/Merc/Ruin (entry level gear) resis setboni and DOM/WI armor setboni)? <<
So all I'm trying to point out is the very much lacking variety of usefull/wearable sets for Slayers/Chopps due to the fact that most sets are not specifically made for one class but rather are the same for all MDPS which results in heaps of useless sets for Chopps. >> The only thing I took away so far is that you dislike -ctbc, there was little mention - but a sentence and some jabs - of the standardization of gear ~ which isn't unique to mdps either. << To add insult to injury the only class specific set Choppa has would be the Redeye >> How so? I figure you refer to the set name? Kinda lost here, as Redeye shares skins and stats (but armor setboni and some other fluff) alike with other mdps sets, too. << that is actually intentionally way worse than for other MDPS. >> Elaborate (* 'intentionally', source?). <<

To give Slayers and Choppas more room to play around with gear and different builds I'd love to see the overly defensive sets like DOM to change to a more usefull one since it is likely not worn by a single player >> See above/armory. << which is a waste of creative possibilities imo. And inbefore "just because you want it..." or "Choppas can be viable therefor any proposed change is heresy" I'd like to clarify that I'm not proposing to give Slayers/Chopps just more stats for free but making the completely unused sets like DOM wearable >> See above/armory, again. << so you'd have more creative freedom than choosing your 2piece strengh split of choice >> You could even go Overlord 2pc for the avoidance, and ducttape together a pure -ctbc stack with Dominator, RF, Anni and Redeye; yadayada, to free up RR in form of FS and then pump it into w/e, or go full utility with the AP removal proc on BL, offensive with haste stacks, yadayada. There are already plenty of things to work with, what is your metric? <<

Abbd.:
In hindsight... how come you skip so many sets (i.e.: jump through power tiers as if it would't matter; as part of your 'argumentation' you are pointing out 'inferior' stats...) in your example? See, if you compiled stuff you could keep it short and yet still cover all sets. Additionally, if variety within the pool of available sets was non-existant, a 1:1 stat comparision between all available sets would yield objectively convincing data, no ?

TLDR: Throw people a bone and they might have fun biting.

E: Spelling + a sentence-ish above*.

You are a rather elaborate troll at least. You basically ask for a few pages of references while the first thing you do is complaining about "wall of text" thats not very consistent. Also you make fun of the fact that I did not go on explaining why other defensive stats than parry/evade/disrupt are for the most part useless and should be avoided for better stats, yet, again, the first thing you do is complaining that it is already too long and too full of absolutes.
Your arguments seem to rest on abstactions that are not connected to anything you'd experience if you were playing a Slayer/Chopp and it therefor seems likely that you have no actual clue about state of Slayer/Chopp.
You may link your Choppa armory here to prove me wrong.
This for example "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that? "
If you have to ask what is bad about that it is kinda obvious that you are not having a good grasp of what it takes to make a Choppa viable. You would drop 5%crit and toughness steal (5+6p conq) or ~60 strengh which as you would know if you played a high lvl Slayer/Choppa is not a viable split option.
Your whole argument revolves around "well, thats just like... your opinion man", but thats not really how it is. You might ask other high lvl Chopps if they think 6p DOM is anywhere near viable and you'd get the same answer im pretty sure.
Your reference "But no one would wear 6 piece DOM or 6 piece ruin if they have a choice (and any clue). >>Back at it... Skimming through the armory tells me that Dominator is being fancied quite alot [in all variations; 2/6 to 6/6]" is just a straight up lie. Tell some names for reference if it's true so we can see how many of the high lvl Chopps fancy 6p DOM since you claimed it's easy to find people who run 6p DOM go ahead and drop like five names of decently high lvl Slayers/Chopps wearing 6pDOM, should be easy enough.
You don't seem to understand how bad defensive stats are for Slayers/Choppa and since you asked for it I will take the time to explain it further.
Most people think that defensive stats should be about as good or bad on a Chopp than on other DPS since you may just take a few more defensive stats if you end up too squishy and voila, you end up with a balanced mix that is a little more defensive for the cost of offensive stats. And that is how you also argued "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that?".
The reality is very different though. Since Chopp are paying a big price for the potential damage they can put out with lacking defensive tools (bad detaunt, having to throw off rage before detaunting, getting KDed in redrage yadayada) stacking defenses (apart from parry/disrupt/evade) is just wasted stats as you trade in STR, WS or crit for it.
The viability curve for Choppas is not linear -as in every offensive stat point is of equal importance. The viability comes only with very high end and purely offensive gear as the burstDMG starts to outperform other DPS classes like maras which are naturally way more tanky and don't have to pay such a high price for it (monstro buff 100%armorpen mitigation - free, really good detaunt - free, not throwing away stats with class mechanic or tactics - free, and so on.) So the only niche in which a Choppa would not be just a way worse mara is the purely offensive one since you justify all the needed support to keep the Chopp alive with better burst.
Now tell me again how valuable 5%crit reduction are and how you can throw away two strengh splits to wear 6p DOM -which has barely any offensive stats, and how that would not affect your performance in a bad way.
Further, if it's still not obvious enough let me add why armor is such a joke for Chopps.
inb4 "500 armor is 500 armor, it's not bad because you'd also drink an armor pot and naturally have some armor that you'd like to keep, so how bad can 500 armor set bonus be?"
In contrast to armor pots and armor on set pieces those stats do not come for free by any means but rather are traded in for the very much needed WS+STR 2p+3p or the stat-steal and crit on CONQ. So you end up with slightly more armor but give up any burst potential which would be the only reason to have a Chopp in the group. And to top it all off something that might surprise you: if you are getting cought as a Choppa you WILL be in redrage most of the time, either they just KD in redrage or in high yellow so you'll be down for a few seconds and can not throw off rage before the damage comes in so you end up with 250 armor set bonus that wont save your live and you additionally have laughable damage so no group would take you in over a mara or a Chopp with viable gear.

[Darosh]

This time in colour ~ I might be a **** and a troll, but I am trying to be constructive in a way...

Spoiler:

You are a rather elaborate troll at least.
Thank you for the acknowledgement.
You basically ask for a few pages of references while the first thing you do is complaining about "wall of text" thats not very consistent.
To qoute myself, thrice:

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Now, if that wall of text didn't consist almost entirely of absolutes instead of actual arguments for your case ~ I still wouldn't agree with you, but could keep atleast a straight face.

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Your entire case boils down to: "I can't imagine myself or anyone use or value set xyz, therefor it should be changed.", it's a natural consequence of making claims to be prompted to produce evidence (e.g.: comparisions, breakdowns of stats, yadayada) isn't it?
Now, mind you, I don't cry about 'wall-of-texts' but rather a lack of content within those wall-of-gibberish ~ it seems to me that you mistake yourself repeating your unsubstantiated claims with abstracting the topic for the 'interested reader'.
Not every 'interested reader' has a grasp on the stat distribution of the sets in question, or the availability of the sets as such (e.g.: your bit about duelist being the only set offering avoidance is either intentionally misleading or plain wrong and to be traced back to missinformation; Overlord, anyone?), so why wouldn't you offer proper examples by default?

You could have posted a breakdown of all available t4 SL/CH sets; i.e.: plain numbers, added a cheeky 'discuss, cunts' and would have done a thousand times better.

TLDR: Obfuscation != abstraction.

I've summarized both posts above with my third:

[...]
Abbd.:
1. Point towards this (mind minor discrepancies), the respective wiki page(s) or a custom compilation of stat distribution/sets.
2. State your observations (e.g.: conflict between standardized sets and class mechanics; 'All SL/CH sets are [almost] identical.', w/e) and your suggestion.
3. State what could go wrong (e.g.: stat/class themed sets + group synergy = potential mayhem [powercreep or discrepancy of gear value; 'Why add more sets if by the end of it new sets entirely invalidate all others?' or w/e], gear acquisition ['Where are shinies supposed to come from?' ~ Change Redeye and everyone complains about BiS from PvE*...]).
4. ??? (Best case scenario: You've convinced people that have no clue about the topic with data [some of which will now argue for their class to receive altered shinies based on consensus], discussion yields better ideas because you now have an influx of perspectives from all over ~ not just a small circle of derps [like me].)
5. Profit. (= Devs fancy a particular idea and implement it; no unsubstantial +1 circlejerk.)
[...]

Note: All of the directly above can be done with a few paragraphs consisting of... idk, less than 5 sentences each?


Also you make fun of the fact that I did not go on explaining why other defensive stats than parry/evade/disrupt are for the most part useless and should be avoided for better stats, yet, again, the first thing you do is complaining that it is already too long and too full of absolutes.
See directly above.

Your arguments seem to rest on abstactions that are not connected to anything you'd experience if you were playing a Slayer/Chopp and it therefor seems likely that you have no actual clue about state of Slayer/Chopp.
Prompting you to put some effort in your own bloody case is akin to resting on 'abstractions'? Let say I don't play either of these class, what now? Are you now magically absolved of the burden of cohesive and coherent argumentation?

You may link your Choppa armory here to prove me wrong.
1v1 meh bro. Now seriously, see directly above. To boil it down: You want to convince strangers on the mystical interwebs to aid you in your campaign to get gear revamped ~ all I am asking you to do is speaking your mind in manner that can be discussed properly; see summary above.

This for example "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that? "
If you have to ask what is bad about that it is kinda obvious that you are not having a good grasp of what it takes to make a Choppa viable. You would drop 5%crit and toughness steal (5+6p conq) or ~60 strengh which as you would know if you played a high lvl Slayer/Choppa is not a viable split option.
Crit that I get for free through composition (debuffs/buffs; +15% static through IB buff/KotBS block buff in addition to/or instead of whatever shenanigans people are up to ([A]SW/SM initative debuffs, 2h KotBS +10ctbc aura), a toughness steal (redacted* my bad on mixing up proctypes here, you good on the statsteal) that doesn't stack with CH/KotBS aura and a stat that is neglible past 800 unpotted as contribution to combat forumals on most CH/SL skills is subpar ~ even in terms of avoidance... you can just position yourself properly. I am playing only order, but I'd figure that especially on destro -ctbc is being quite fancied even with the new initiative forumla in place, additionally: considering FS (-ctbc) is one of the most expensive RR stats to stack, 'cheap' -ctbc on gear pays for itself. Fyi, you could run full deftard, if your ctbc is too high (= +10% undebuffed regardless of initiative ~ +0/5% ctbc with stock initiative/sub250 ) you'll objectively lose out on effectiveness, as most relevant dps (WE/Mara/Sorc - WL/WH/BW) have advanced crit multipliers, those that don't have undefendable ST burst (Magus/Engi) or 24/7 uptime initiative debuffs ([A]SW/SH, conq/BL proc > ability).

Your whole argument revolves around "well, thats just like... your opinion man", but thats not really how it is.
I am yet waiting for you to show me that it is not the case.

You might ask other high lvl Chopps if they think 6p DOM is anywhere near viable and you'd get the same answer im pretty sure.
I am waiting for you to show me a breakdown of stats (spreadsheet or reasonably structured wall-of-text) and the format that is being played in (e.g.: Pugfarm/6v6/ORvR, yadayada). I don't need to ask your fellow green people, neither should you have to point towards them if you have a case and reasonable arguments to support it.

Your reference "But no one would wear 6 piece DOM or 6 piece ruin if they have a choice (and any clue). >>Back at it... Skimming through the armory tells me that Dominator is being fancied quite alot [in all variations; 2/6 to 6/6]" is just a straight up lie.
Tell some names for reference if it's true so we can see how many of the high lvl Chopps fancy 6p DOM since you claimed it's easy to find people who run 6p DOM go ahead and drop like five names of decently high lvl Slayers/Chopps wearing 6pDOM, should be easy enough.
First things first, Ruin is an entry level set and is therefor limited to 5 pieces, I initially thought that it's a typo in your OP... apparently it isn't.
Secondly, the armory is accessible to everyone ~ thirdly, competent players swap their gear based on format and encounter, hence me prompting you repeatedly to make up your mind up and hint at what format you are even considering in your mindless ramble.
If you want some prominent names, take Bozzax (CH) and Filagon (SL) as players that have run 6pc Dominator in the past and are actively swapping their gear based on what they are playing in and encountering therein.


You don't seem to understand how bad defensive stats are for Slayers/Choppa and since you asked for it I will take the time to explain it further.
Most people think that defensive stats should be about as good or bad on a Chopp than on other DPS since you may just take a few more defensive stats if you end up too squishy and voila, you end up with a balanced mix that is a little more defensive for the cost of offensive stats. And that is how you also argued "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that?".
The reality is very different though. Since Chopp are paying a big price for the potential damage they can put out with lacking defensive tools (bad detaunt, having to throw off rage before detaunting, getting KDed in redrage yadayada) stacking defenses (apart from parry/disrupt/evade) is just wasted stats as you trade in STR, WS or crit for it.
Here again, what's the format?
How does parry help you whilst being KD'd and guardstripped?
(Note: I do agree on the importance of ranged avoidance, albeit in the best case scenario you have atleast one [at best ofc two, or more if large scale is concerned] SnB guardbots HtL raving around you whenever it's needed).
How come the two most potent defensive stats: ctbc (see above) and wounds (GCD buffer), are nowhere on your wishlist or worse... blacklisted, in the case of ctbc? I am aware that pure glass CH/SL is alot of fun, but unless you run a fix group and almost only pugfarm there is virtually no point riksing to get instagibbed by even mediocre Xman assists by running +20% ctbc, sub7K HP and stock initiative.
Furthermore, in your OP you stated that you wanted to go defensive and wished for a gear revamp to give you more opportunity to min-max on your Choppa - all fair and well, but why are you, then, argueing that quite literally all the stats available to you (but avoidance, yes, I read your posts, don't worry) are garbage and that you are 'bound to' run essentially full glass?
To clarify: If [almost] all [defensive] stats are bad that are being offered to you via Dominator/x, and your class apparently leaves you no choice but to commit to the glass-schtick anyways... wouldn't you be better off making a balance proposal instead of trying to fix something (= gear), that is not only broken by default (= standardization) but also impossible to fix (= 'garbage stats')?

TLDR:
Part of critiquing or suggesting something is coming up with either own 'solutions' (e.g.: What stats would you want on what pieces?) and an assessment of risks (e.g.: If stat xyz made available a plenty, zyx bad things might happen) ~ that's why sober breakdowns of data are such fancy things, you can explain stuff and then point at specific things and keep explanations and such short, yet valuable. (= See my summary at the very top.)

The viability curve for Choppas is not linear -as in every offensive stat point is of equal importance. The viability comes only with very high end and purely offensive gear as the burstDMG starts to outperform other DPS classes like maras which are naturally way more tanky and don't have to pay such a high price for it (monstro buff 100%armorpen mitigation - free, really good detaunt - free, not throwing away stats with class mechanic or tactics - free, and so on.)
Tiresome tropes, you knew what you signed up for before you created your Choppa, didn't you? CH/SL are almost entirely group dependent (bad/average groups = compensation via gear or bust, good group + bad opposition = full glass == pugfarm, good group + good opposition = min/max == no full glass.

So the only niche in which a Choppa would not be just a way worse mara is the purely offensive one since you justify all the needed support to keep the Chopp alive with better burst.
Now tell me again how valuable 5%crit reduction are and how you can throw away two strengh splits to wear 6p DOM -which has barely any offensive stats, and how that would not affect your performance in a bad way.
Min-max'ing e,g.: take -ctbc gear, drop FS, take new shinies for free'd up RR = win, or more simplistic: stack -ctbc, make up for lost pewpew with debuffs and proper assist = more stable group, less pressure on healer and tanks, alternatively (if you happen to be a puglord, drunk or bored): go full deftard, carry pugSCs by baiting and facetanking 12 headless chicken into wasting their time with you while Mr. Hatninja and Mr. Pouncey-Pointy-Ears tear people up uncontested. In case of the latter: Bonus points for SL-botting on a Slayer.

TLDR: Format (= context) matters.


Further, if it's still not obvious enough let me add why armor is such a joke for Chopps.
inb4 "500 armor is 500 armor, it's not bad because you'd also drink an armor pot and naturally have some armor that you'd like to keep, so how bad can 500 armor set bonus be?"
In contrast to armor pots and armor on set pieces those stats do not come for free by any means but rather are traded in for the very much needed WS+STR 2p+3p or the stat-steal and crit on CONQ.
Here again, unless things have changed (for the better) the proc (redacted* same as above, my bad) stack with any other source. WS is negligible past 50% if your group brings armor debuffs. Armor is quite literally armor: let's say you don't get to drop rage (arguably to be expected if you face good opposition, I do agree) and you get debuffed (also to be expected) 250 armor > 0 armor, no? If you do get to drop rage, you'll essentially buffer for a midtier-armordebuff and WS armor pen (arguably more relevant for Slayer [dwarf racial + pot + dominator 4pc == yumyum in all things <4-6man/roam], I pity green people - not even joking, ... but... you see... DWARF MASTER RACE).

So you end up with slightly more armor but give up any burst potential which would be the only reason to have a Chopp in the group.
If you know had a breakdown of stats, you could point at it and tell me (/interested readers that don't know the sets) "You trade xyz for zyx, xyz is more valuable because of <<accessibility [group/gear/rr], cost/acquisition, tradeoff, yadayada>>." All of that could essentially be done with two sentences and a spreadsheet. But let's go about it in a more practical, half-arsed manner, shall we?

1. How much burst do you lose if you get instagibbed because you run full glass (provided, again, no defensive stat but avoidance seems to be relevant for you)?
2. What's the issue with having sets (Dominator/WI with defensive base stats [armor/resis]) in your inventory for encounters that see your pitted against full on meleetrains/rdps assisttrains?

Want pewpew and have confidence in your group? - Run baseline conq, str/ws/crit stack or a haste (<3) stack, whatever you fancy and consider the pewpew'est of the pewpew'est.
Want to pug or need sustain? - Swap to pocket Dominator/WI setup, show your A-game in terms of assist/hardswaps/general coordination to make up for it.
Want to experiment a bit? - Run a utility setup with the BL AP proc, or mix-and-match until Frankenstein-together the supreme deftard spec, or a full on w/e stack.


And to top it all off something that might surprise you: if you are getting cought as a Choppa you WILL be in redrage most of the time, either they just KD in redrage or in high yellow so you'll be down for a few seconds and can not throw off rage before the damage comes in so you end up with 250 armor set bonus that wont save your live and you additionally have laughable damage so no group would take you in over a mara or a Chopp with viable gear.
See above, and please... quit the hyperbole. It's a marginal tradeoff that you are ought to compensate, sure: If you go full on deftard, don't expect to pewpew ~ in case of Dominator you lose at most WS (Dominator and Conq [speaking full set stacks, surely you'll lose splits with both full sets, yadayada) strength valuees are mirrored, iirc), which - again - is negligible if you are fed armordebuffs.

Partially, I can see where you are coming from... I admit I might be a bit spoiled by the crit stack on order. However, ... see the summary at the very top; I don't want a dissertation, I want something I can theorycraft or reconcile my mind with ~ maybe even campaign for myself ~ so far it's doom and gloom.

Abbd.:
TLDR: This is what I took away from your suggestion and argumentation so far, le garbage meme (I am not good at it):

Spoiler:

*I make mistakes, too. Throw a stone.

E:Typos and stuff.

[HissiCNesS]

I too would like to see some variety in sets. As well as cat videos on youtube.

Click here to watch on YouTube

You're welcome

[MiauMio]

This time in colour ~ I might be a **** and a troll, but I am trying to be constructive in a way...

Spoiler:

You are a rather elaborate troll at least.
Thank you for the acknowledgement.
You basically ask for a few pages of references while the first thing you do is complaining about "wall of text" thats not very consistent.
To qoute myself, thrice:

Spoiler:

Now, if that wall of text didn't consist almost entirely of absolutes instead of actual arguments for your case ~ I still wouldn't agree with you, but could keep atleast a straight face.

Spoiler:

Your entire case boils down to: "I can't imagine myself or anyone use or value set xyz, therefor it should be changed.", it's a natural consequence of making claims to be prompted to produce evidence (e.g.: comparisions, breakdowns of stats, yadayada) isn't it?
Now, mind you, I don't cry about 'wall-of-texts' but rather a lack of content within those wall-of-gibberish ~ it seems to me that you mistake yourself repeating your unsubstantiated claims with abstracting the topic for the 'interested reader'.
Not every 'interested reader' has a grasp on the stat distribution of the sets in question, or the availability of the sets as such (e.g.: your bit about duelist being the only set offering avoidance is either intentionally misleading or plain wrong and to be traced back to missinformation; Overlord, anyone?), so why wouldn't you offer proper examples by default?

You could have posted a breakdown of all available t4 SL/CH sets; i.e.: plain numbers, added a cheeky 'discuss, cunts' and would have done a thousand times better.

TLDR: Obfuscation != abstraction.

I've summarized both posts above with my third:

[...]
Abbd.:
1. Point towards this (mind minor discrepancies), the respective wiki page(s) or a custom compilation of stat distribution/sets.
2. State your observations (e.g.: conflict between standardized sets and class mechanics; 'All SL/CH sets are [almost] identical.', w/e) and your suggestion.
3. State what could go wrong (e.g.: stat/class themed sets + group synergy = potential mayhem [powercreep or discrepancy of gear value; 'Why add more sets if by the end of it new sets entirely invalidate all others?' or w/e], gear acquisition ['Where are shinies supposed to come from?' ~ Change Redeye and everyone complains about BiS from PvE*...]).
4. ??? (Best case scenario: You've convinced people that have no clue about the topic with data [some of which will now argue for their class to receive altered shinies based on consensus], discussion yields better ideas because you now have an influx of perspectives from all over ~ not just a small circle of derps [like me].)
5. Profit. (= Devs fancy a particular idea and implement it; no unsubstantial +1 circlejerk.)
[...]

Note: All of the directly above can be done with a few paragraphs consisting of... idk, less than 5 sentences each?


Also you make fun of the fact that I did not go on explaining why other defensive stats than parry/evade/disrupt are for the most part useless and should be avoided for better stats, yet, again, the first thing you do is complaining that it is already too long and too full of absolutes.
See directly above.

Your arguments seem to rest on abstactions that are not connected to anything you'd experience if you were playing a Slayer/Chopp and it therefor seems likely that you have no actual clue about state of Slayer/Chopp.
Prompting you to put some effort in your own bloody case is akin to resting on 'abstractions'? Let say I don't play either of these class, what now? Are you now magically absolved of the burden of cohesive and coherent argumentation?

You may link your Choppa armory here to prove me wrong.
1v1 meh bro. Now seriously, see directly above. To boil it down: You want to convince strangers on the mystical interwebs to aid you in your campaign to get gear revamped ~ all I am asking you to do is speaking your mind in manner that can be discussed properly; see summary above.

This for example "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that? "
If you have to ask what is bad about that it is kinda obvious that you are not having a good grasp of what it takes to make a Choppa viable. You would drop 5%crit and toughness steal (5+6p conq) or ~60 strengh which as you would know if you played a high lvl Slayer/Choppa is not a viable split option.
Crit that I get for free through composition (debuffs/buffs; +15% static through IB buff/KotBS block buff in addition to/or instead of whatever shenanigans people are up to ([A]SW/SM initative debuffs, 2h KotBS +10ctbc aura), a toughness steal (redacted* my bad on mixing up proctypes here, you good on the statsteal) that doesn't stack with CH/KotBS aura and a stat that is neglible past 800 unpotted as contribution to combat forumals on most CH/SL skills is subpar ~ even in terms of avoidance... you can just position yourself properly. I am playing only order, but I'd figure that especially on destro -ctbc is being quite fancied even with the new initiative forumla in place, additionally: considering FS (-ctbc) is one of the most expensive RR stats to stack, 'cheap' -ctbc on gear pays for itself. Fyi, you could run full deftard, if your ctbc is too high (= +10% undebuffed regardless of initiative ~ +0/5% ctbc with stock initiative/sub250 ) you'll objectively lose out on effectiveness, as most relevant dps (WE/Mara/Sorc - WL/WH/BW) have advanced crit multipliers, those that don't have undefendable ST burst (Magus/Engi) or 24/7 uptime initiative debuffs ([A]SW/SH, conq/BL proc > ability).

Your whole argument revolves around "well, thats just like... your opinion man", but thats not really how it is.
I am yet waiting for you to show me that it is not the case.

You might ask other high lvl Chopps if they think 6p DOM is anywhere near viable and you'd get the same answer im pretty sure.
I am waiting for you to show me a breakdown of stats (spreadsheet or reasonably structured wall-of-text) and the format that is being played in (e.g.: Pugfarm/6v6/ORvR, yadayada). I don't need to ask your fellow green people, neither should you have to point towards them if you have a case and reasonable arguments to support it.

Your reference "But no one would wear 6 piece DOM or 6 piece ruin if they have a choice (and any clue). >>Back at it... Skimming through the armory tells me that Dominator is being fancied quite alot [in all variations; 2/6 to 6/6]" is just a straight up lie.
Tell some names for reference if it's true so we can see how many of the high lvl Chopps fancy 6p DOM since you claimed it's easy to find people who run 6p DOM go ahead and drop like five names of decently high lvl Slayers/Chopps wearing 6pDOM, should be easy enough.
First things first, Ruin is an entry level set and is therefor limited to 5 pieces, I initially thought that it's a typo in your OP... apparently it isn't.
Secondly, the armory is accessible to everyone ~ thirdly, competent players swap their gear based on format and encounter, hence me prompting you repeatedly to make up your mind up and hint at what format you are even considering in your mindless ramble.
If you want some prominent names, take Bozzax (CH) and Filagon (SL) as players that have run 6pc Dominator in the past and are actively swapping their gear based on what they are playing in and encountering therein.


You don't seem to understand how bad defensive stats are for Slayers/Choppa and since you asked for it I will take the time to explain it further.
Most people think that defensive stats should be about as good or bad on a Chopp than on other DPS since you may just take a few more defensive stats if you end up too squishy and voila, you end up with a balanced mix that is a little more defensive for the cost of offensive stats. And that is how you also argued "IIRC it's 2pc, even if 3pc ~ cheap ctbc what's bad about that?".
The reality is very different though. Since Chopp are paying a big price for the potential damage they can put out with lacking defensive tools (bad detaunt, having to throw off rage before detaunting, getting KDed in redrage yadayada) stacking defenses (apart from parry/disrupt/evade) is just wasted stats as you trade in STR, WS or crit for it.
Here again, what's the format?
How does parry help you whilst being KD'd and guardstripped?
(Note: I do agree on the importance of ranged avoidance, albeit in the best case scenario you have atleast one [at best ofc two, or more if large scale is concerned] SnB guardbots HtL raving around you whenever it's needed).
How come the two most potent defensive stats: ctbc (see above) and wounds (GCD buffer), are nowhere on your wishlist or worse... blacklisted, in the case of ctbc? I am aware that pure glass CH/SL is alot of fun, but unless you run a fix group and almost only pugfarm there is virtually no point riksing to get instagibbed by even mediocre Xman assists by running +20% ctbc, sub7K HP and stock initiative.
Furthermore, in your OP you stated that you wanted to go defensive and wished for a gear revamp to give you more opportunity to min-max on your Choppa - all fair and well, but why are you, then, argueing that quite literally all the stats available to you (but avoidance, yes, I read your posts, don't worry) are garbage and that you are 'bound to' run essentially full glass?
To clarify: If [almost] all [defensive] stats are bad that are being offered to you via Dominator/x, and your class apparently leaves you no choice but to commit to the glass-schtick anyways... wouldn't you be better off making a balance proposal instead of trying to fix something (= gear), that is not only broken by default (= standardization) but also impossible to fix (= 'garbage stats')?

TLDR:
Part of critiquing or suggesting something is coming up with either own 'solutions' (e.g.: What stats would you want on what pieces?) and an assessment of risks (e.g.: If stat xyz made available a plenty, zyx bad things might happen) ~ that's why sober breakdowns of data are such fancy things, you can explain stuff and then point at specific things and keep explanations and such short, yet valuable. (= See my summary at the very top.)

The viability curve for Choppas is not linear -as in every offensive stat point is of equal importance. The viability comes only with very high end and purely offensive gear as the burstDMG starts to outperform other DPS classes like maras which are naturally way more tanky and don't have to pay such a high price for it (monstro buff 100%armorpen mitigation - free, really good detaunt - free, not throwing away stats with class mechanic or tactics - free, and so on.)
Tiresome tropes, you knew what you signed up for before you created your Choppa, didn't you? CH/SL are almost entirely group dependent (bad/average groups = compensation via gear or bust, good group + bad opposition = full glass == pugfarm, good group + good opposition = min/max == no full glass.

So the only niche in which a Choppa would not be just a way worse mara is the purely offensive one since you justify all the needed support to keep the Chopp alive with better burst.
Now tell me again how valuable 5%crit reduction are and how you can throw away two strengh splits to wear 6p DOM -which has barely any offensive stats, and how that would not affect your performance in a bad way.
Min-max'ing e,g.: take -ctbc gear, drop FS, take new shinies for free'd up RR = win, or more simplistic: stack -ctbc, make up for lost pewpew with debuffs and proper assist = more stable group, less pressure on healer and tanks, alternatively (if you happen to be a puglord, drunk or bored): go full deftard, carry pugSCs by baiting and facetanking 12 headless chicken into wasting their time with you while Mr. Hatninja and Mr. Pouncey-Pointy-Ears tear people up uncontested. In case of the latter: Bonus points for SL-botting on a Slayer.

TLDR: Format (= context) matters.


Further, if it's still not obvious enough let me add why armor is such a joke for Chopps.
inb4 "500 armor is 500 armor, it's not bad because you'd also drink an armor pot and naturally have some armor that you'd like to keep, so how bad can 500 armor set bonus be?"
In contrast to armor pots and armor on set pieces those stats do not come for free by any means but rather are traded in for the very much needed WS+STR 2p+3p or the stat-steal and crit on CONQ.
Here again, unless things have changed (for the better) the proc (redacted* same as above, my bad) stack with any other source. WS is negligible past 50% if your group brings armor debuffs. Armor is quite literally armor: let's say you don't get to drop rage (arguably to be expected if you face good opposition, I do agree) and you get debuffed (also to be expected) 250 armor > 0 armor, no? If you do get to drop rage, you'll essentially buffer for a midtier-armordebuff and WS armor pen (arguably more relevant for Slayer [dwarf racial + pot + dominator 4pc == yumyum in all things <4-6man/roam], I pity green people - not even joking, ... but... you see... DWARF MASTER RACE).

So you end up with slightly more armor but give up any burst potential which would be the only reason to have a Chopp in the group.
If you know had a breakdown of stats, you could point at it and tell me (/interested readers that don't know the sets) "You trade xyz for zyx, xyz is more valuable because of <<accessibility [group/gear/rr], cost/acquisition, tradeoff, yadayada>>." All of that could essentially be done with two sentences and a spreadsheet. But let's go about it in a more practical, half-arsed manner, shall we?

1. How much burst do you lose if you get instagibbed because you run full glass (provided, again, no defensive stat but avoidance seems to be relevant for you)?
2. What's the issue with having sets (Dominator/WI with defensive base stats [armor/resis]) in your inventory for encounters that see your pitted against full on meleetrains/rdps assisttrains?

Want pewpew and have confidence in your group? - Run baseline conq, str/ws/crit stack or a haste (<3) stack, whatever you fancy and consider the pewpew'est of the pewpew'est.
Want to pug or need sustain? - Swap to pocket Dominator/WI setup, show your A-game in terms of assist/hardswaps/general coordination to make up for it.
Want to experiment a bit? - Run a utility setup with the BL AP proc, or mix-and-match until Frankenstein-together the supreme deftard spec, or a full on w/e stack.


And to top it all off something that might surprise you: if you are getting cought as a Choppa you WILL be in redrage most of the time, either they just KD in redrage or in high yellow so you'll be down for a few seconds and can not throw off rage before the damage comes in so you end up with 250 armor set bonus that wont save your live and you additionally have laughable damage so no group would take you in over a mara or a Chopp with viable gear.
See above, and please... quit the hyperbole. It's a marginal tradeoff that you are ought to compensate, sure: If you go full on deftard, don't expect to pewpew ~ in case of Dominator you lose at most WS (Dominator and Conq [speaking full set stacks, surely you'll lose splits with both full sets, yadayada) strength valuees are mirrored, iirc), which - again - is negligible if you are fed armordebuffs.

Partially, I can see where you are coming from... I admit I might be a bit spoiled by the crit stack on order. However, ... see the summary at the very top; I don't want a dissertation, I want something I can theorycraft or reconcile my mind with ~ maybe even campaign for myself ~ so far it's doom and gloom.

Abbd.:
TLDR: This is what I took away from your suggestion and argumentation so far, le garbage meme (I am not good at it):

Spoiler:

*I make mistakes, too. Throw a stone.

E:Typos and stuff.

Thanks for the effort, you really seem to enjoy this.
This post was not ment to explain every possible spectrum of playing a Choppa to a complete stranger to this topic.
Since I assume that everyone who is in the position to have a reasonable argument about the viability of certain classes/sets and therefor an interest in sharing their thoughts and experiences has any perspective to add and a basic level of understanding I dare to further skip explaining every little detail.
Your list of players that have worn 6p DOM in the past is at best deceiving since i've worn 6p DOM in the past too and swapped my gear according to situation - meaning putting on stat splits again and dumping the DOM into the vault. So thats as weak of a response as I expected and can be viewed as guilt-admission if nothing else. We both know that you pulled that out of your ar**.

But in contrast to your trolling nonsense that does not add anything new to the conversation I'd be very much interested in hearing from Bozzax and Filagon about their experiences with wearing 6p DOM.

You still don't seem to understand that you can't just "trade in pew pew" for def stats on Choppa and expect to stay viable even though I took the time to explain to you why there is no niche for def-chopps.
Your respone to this exact point, which I pointed out before, is making your lack of experience in this regard painfully obvious and is furthermore the reason I correctly assumed before that you have no experience playing a SL/CH whatsoever.
This is not ment to offend you and does not disqualify you from participating in this discussion but you'll have to put up with the fact that OPs won't always educate you on every facet of the discussed topic and additionally won't rate your clueless nagging as relevant as the response of someone with possibly hundreds of hours put into theorycrafting their respective chars. You also show everyone thats willing to read through your comments why, while trying to make points about absolutes, you'd want to have at least a little insight into the respective area.

Just to correct one of the many things you strawman and misrepresent for the record:
"Furthermore, in your OP you stated that you wanted to go defensive and wished for a gear revamp to give you more opportunity to min-max on your Choppa - all fair and well, but why are you, then, argueing that quite literally all the stats available to you (but avoidance, yes, I read your posts, don't worry) are garbage and that you are 'bound to' run essentially full glass?
To clarify: If [almost] all [defensive] stats are bad that are being offered to you via Dominator/x, and your class apparently leaves you no choice but to commit to the glass-schtick anyways... wouldn't you be better off making a balance proposal instead of trying to fix something (= gear), that is not only broken by default (= standardization) but also impossible to fix (= 'garbage stats')?"

I never said that I wanted to go defensive and therefor want the defsets to be more viable. Also I never said that def stats are bad for Choppa and THEREFORE you should go full DPS (while they are particularily bad that is not the reason). The reason is that Choppas do not exist in a vacuum but have to be compared to other DPS like Mara in terms of viability. And The only remaining niche is full DPS as Choppas can't compete with other MDPS for durability. I just pointed out that, because of this some sets are of no value at the moment.
The possibilities to change something meaningful about that are infinite, changing some set bonuses just the most subtle one imo.
It does not matter if they'd be changed to an at least halt-viable def-set or give it some offensive stats so i'd at least see some play in (not only str?!) splits. And additionally I do not necessarily think that there should even be such a thing as a viable def-Choppa, but that the lack of viable sets is hindering creativity in a big way.
Also one connected point you like to misrepresent a lot:
"How come the two most potent defensive stats: ctbc (see above) and wounds (GCD buffer), are nowhere on your wishlist or worse... blacklisted, in the case of ctbc? I am aware that pure glass CH/SL is alot of fun, but unless you run a fix group and almost only pugfarm there is virtually no point riksing to get instagibbed by even mediocre Xman assists by running +20% ctbc, sub7K HP and stock initiative. "
Init and wounds are good stats and you'd want to have as much of it as possible. Aswell as you'd like to have as much armor and resistances as possible.
I pointed out this fallacy of yours the last time and still you don't seem to understand that you do not get those stats for free.
And noone would take a Choppa (your conceptual Choppa) with ~900str and sub 50% armorpen in their group over literally anything.
If you want to have a more defensive teamsetup you just swap the Choppa for a Mara and thats it. There is no room for defensive Choppas besides in your head.
One thing you are right about though, the time to pull out 6p DOM is when you are drunk AF and want to laugh about some RoR memes. "(if you happen to be a puglord, drunk or bored)"
Yet again thanks for your effort and the rather funny meme at the end, pls don't expect me to argue every point though, since it's just repeating the same fallacies over and over. Feel Free to ask Bozzax and Filagon though, to add their experiences to the discussion, would be thrilled to read about their positive reviews on 6pDOM.

[GodlessCrom]

Dude, please use better formatting. Use the forum quote function or something. The layout of these posts, combined with the semi-fluent English, makes it super tough to read.

For what its worth, 100% certain Darosh has a 40/40+ Slayer. I dont think he has a Choppa though (because orcs are a garbage race for garbage people. UP THE DWARFS). And I dont think he is saying go 6 piece dominator. But maybe mix and match with other gear besides full offensive conqueror.

I assume youre EU player: are you in a guild that does six mans? I dont know many of the EU players so maybe youre in LOB or something and I just dont realize. Pretty curious what your actual credentials are

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

Thanks for the effort, you really seem to enjoy this.
This post was not ment to explain every possible spectrum of playing a Choppa to a complete stranger to this topic.
Since I assume that everyone who is in the position to have a reasonable argument about the viability of certain classes/sets and therefor an interest in sharing their thoughts and experiences has any perspective to add and a basic level of understanding I dare to further skip explaining every little detail.
Your list of players that have worn 6p DOM in the past is at best deceiving since i've worn 6p DOM in the past too and swapped my gear according to situation - meaning putting on stat splits again and dumping the DOM into the vault. So thats as weak of a response as I expected and can be viewed as guilt-admission if nothing else. We both know that you pulled that out of your ar**.
One of the few bits I'll directly comment on: Wut? You prompted me to give you names of people that happen to run full dominator, you here state that you've swapped to it based on situational needs... what exactly is your point and how exactly is that an admission of guilt? I am genuinely confused.

But in contrast to your trolling nonsense that does not add anything new to the conversation I'd be very much interested in hearing from Bozzax and Filagon about their experiences with wearing 6p DOM.
Same here. See questions below...

You still don't seem to understand that you can't just "trade in pew pew" for def stats on Choppa and expect to stay viable even though I took the time to explain to you why there is no niche for def-chopps.
Your respone to this exact point, which I pointed out before, is making your lack of experience in this regard painfully obvious and is furthermore the reason I correctly assumed before that you have no experience playing a SL/CH whatsoever.
This is not ment to offend you and does not disqualify you from participating in this discussion but you'll have to put up with the fact that OPs won't always educate you on every facet of the discussed topic and additionally won't rate your clueless nagging as relevant as the response of someone with possibly hundreds of hours put into theorycrafting their respective chars. You also show everyone thats willing to read through your comments why, while trying to make points about absolutes, you'd want to have at least a little insight into the respective area.

Just to correct one of the many things you strawman and misrepresent for the record:
"Furthermore, in your OP you stated that you wanted to go defensive and wished for a gear revamp to give you more opportunity to min-max on your Choppa - all fair and well, but why are you, then, argueing that quite literally all the stats available to you (but avoidance, yes, I read your posts, don't worry) are garbage and that you are 'bound to' run essentially full glass?
To clarify: If [almost] all [defensive] stats are bad that are being offered to you via Dominator/x, and your class apparently leaves you no choice but to commit to the glass-schtick anyways... wouldn't you be better off making a balance proposal instead of trying to fix something (= gear), that is not only broken by default (= standardization) but also impossible to fix (= 'garbage stats')?"

I never said that I wanted to go defensive and therefor want the defsets to be more viable. Also I never said that def stats are bad for Choppa and THEREFORE you should go full DPS (while they are particularily bad that is not the reason). The reason is that Choppas do not exist in a vacuum but have to be compared to other DPS like Mara in terms of viability. And The only remaining niche is full DPS as Choppas can't compete with other MDPS for durability. I just pointed out that, because of this some sets are of no value at the moment.
The possibilities to change something meaningful about that are infinite, changing some set bonuses just the most subtle one imo.
It does not matter if they'd be changed to an at least halt-viable def-set or give it some offensive stats so i'd at least see some play in (not only str?!) splits. And additionally I do not necessarily think that there should even be such a thing as a viable def-Choppa, but that the lack of viable sets is hindering creativity in a big way.
Also one connected point you like to misrepresent a lot:
"How come the two most potent defensive stats: ctbc (see above) and wounds (GCD buffer), are nowhere on your wishlist or worse... blacklisted, in the case of ctbc? I am aware that pure glass CH/SL is alot of fun, but unless you run a fix group and almost only pugfarm there is virtually no point riksing to get instagibbed by even mediocre Xman assists by running +20% ctbc, sub7K HP and stock initiative. "
Init and wounds are good stats and you'd want to have as much of it as possible. Aswell as you'd like to have as much armor and resistances as possible.
I pointed out this fallacy of yours the last time and still you don't seem to understand that you do not get those stats for free.
The underscored part is the very crux of it, isn't it? You are NOT supposed to get these stats for free, but to compensate for the trade if you choose to make it.
And noone would take a Choppa (your conceptual Choppa) with ~900str and sub 50% armorpen in their group over literally anything.
If you want to have a more defensive teamsetup you just swap the Choppa for a Mara and thats it. There is no room for defensive Choppas besides in your head.
One thing you are right about though, the time to pull out 6p DOM is when you are drunk AF and want to laugh about some RoR memes. "(if you happen to be a puglord, drunk or bored)"
Yet again thanks for your effort and the rather funny meme at the end, pls don't expect me to argue every point though, since it's just repeating the same fallacies over and over. Feel Free to ask Bozzax and Filagon though, to add their experiences to the discussion, would be thrilled to read about their positive reviews on 6pDOM.
In regards to the meme: Uh, thanks, I didn't expect it to be funny... I am, again, not good at the memery.
In regards to the red bit: THIS is your case. If you are of the opinion that they'll support your case - giving your phrasing -, go about contacting them.

Let me boil ALL of what I was trying to tell you down to a couple of questions:
Why is it, do you think, that there aren't any other CH/SLs participating in this discussion - neither in support of you (and much more importantly for you - certainly - in opposition to me [no doubt I could be silenced in a moments notice if just enough CH/SL chimed in and told me to **** right off; I might be at heart a dwarf, but I am neither omnipotent or infalliable, nor much liked on these forums, soo... something is at odds, no?], nor in direct opposition to you?

Why is it, do you think, that there isn't any staff input as to whether they'd be willing to change sets based on potential consensus achived through the means of this discussion?

If the sets were changed, would the result be anything other than another flavor of offensive sets - with little to no difference to the existing ones?
If for every tradeoff there is a possible compensation (e.g.: WS -> armor debuffs, str -> procs/appropriate CC, crit -> group synergy, ...yadayada) why is it necessary to provide more stats/gear to mix-and-match, and how exactly do you think that - in a scenario like that - powercreep could be feasibly avoided?

If the class you picked is in a such dire state that you, and other Choppas alike, are forced into one schtick to compete with other classes, wouldn't it be more reasonable and feasible to try and bring forth change by making appropriate balance proposals? (Pinkish bits above.)

If your go to argument to any rebuttal of your 'arguments' is ad hominem gibberish (mind you, I've yet to even challenge the legitmacy of your case [say, in form of questioning your own experience - which I have no interest in doing, just so you know - not only doesn't it add anything to the whole topic nor is it a means of well mannered discourse], all I did so far is challenging you on the basis of your argumentation - a meta-ish critique if you will)... why would anyone bother arguing with you? (Cyanish bits above.)

Spoiler:

I have yet to even unterstand what you are arguing for, to be perfectly honest with you... hence my incessant 'useless nagging':
- A change to the gear to accomodate a specific playstyle?
- A change to the gear to tackle realm specific balance/competition?
- A change to the gear in an attempt to simply generate more overall opportunity to mix-and-match (in which case you've probably made the most convincing 'arguments' as to why that won't solve your particular problem, see below)?
- A change to the classes in question?

In the quote above (aswell as in your other posts), the bit about a Choppa's role in the hierachy of classes and it's dependencies in particular ( = one of the pinkish bits, in the middle of the post), you bascially argued for a class change rather than a gear change...

- You don't want a defensive set, as you deem remotely defensive Choppas to be a waste of space in groups.
- You changed gear based on situational needs in the past, yet you - again - don't deem defensive sets valueable.
- You want setboni to be changed, but give no example of a change that'd satisfy your expectations.
- You have 'theorycrafted for thousands of hours' and yet cannot come up with more than str-splits that enhance the potency of your class (without giving in to 'garbage stats' which 'nullify' your offensive capabilities) in one way or another.

This is how you can picture me as of right now:

Spoiler:

I do not intend do challenge your take on Choppas and their hardships, as I do not play a Choppa.
But I do challenge your take on Slayers, for that I can literally compensate for everything I could possibly lose running any mix-and-match of dominator or even the full set by building a group that suits my needs (1.Hail dwarf master race! 2.Racial tactics (AI, SOTS), haste tactic, ID/SL, crit stack all over the place, armor and initative debuffs a plenty, BS [if I can be arsed to find a pointy-ear in a dress], yadayada) and I can compensate for almost everything (but ctbc) I'd lose if I were to choose to run pure glass by simply grouping with an IB (and running SOTS and pots to buffer for kd+red+guardstrip), so bleh.

I am satisfied with all the tools I am given by the devs, you claim I shouldn't be, so... convince me.