Invader farming and the consequences

[Gracely]

Everything should be buyable with enough medals like live.

I really only need four pieces on a SW but I have to get the whole set to get the jewellery? Surely you should be free to pick what you want?

[harkerkane]

if i could suggest on how i think forteress should work :

First no reason for phase 1 to afk 10 min . use the wonderfull zone around the forteress to make catapults who should be defend to break outer door . it will give some strategical push for defenser (destroy two catapult will make only one door open and funnel will be easier for defenser which give them objectives to go out in phase 1)

two . the phase two is the funniest of all but two objectives could be add with aircraft which can damage attackers when possessed by the defenser . the objectives should be easier to def (wall , mountain)

three . the third phase is the most frustrating. Door is so small that attackers bodyblock themselves when pushing.defenser caster and healers stay safely on stairs or in the backyard of the room. a second way of enter in the lord room should be allowed for attackers like a postern near stairs . it can add some strategic plan for attacker and defense will be harder than brainless aoe a door . if that s the case the gold bag earn by defenser in case of victory should stay . but in the present situation there is no point to give gold bag for easy def . we should not see people log on main just for short contribution in last zone and full def on fort.

Four . the contribution doesnt allowed to give people incentive to fight? because the def is so hard lots of attackers afk after the second fail and just wait for medals or gold bags if by miracle the defenders are defeated. the contribution could be based on kills, objectives def in phase 1 and 2 or prison attacks . afkers should not be rewarded in any case .

Five . respawn for attackers should not be a farm fest put it in safe place . and maybe in case of successfull forteress defense put the zone back to middle (thundermountain praag or dragonwake ) . the present way make third forteress defense possible in a 8 hours which is stupidly incentive for defenders to not really fight outside of forteress.

Dont know if all those suggestions could be add and if it s too much work for devs but maybe it will make those forteress and rvr in general more playable . today third forteress and third black crag zone lock which is boring when you know that you will lose forteress in 9 case on 10

Just my two cent .

[Aethilmar]

Just wanted to add to this discussion with the following:

Even as I type this, Destro chat is about how, after routing Order in Chaos Wastes and making them log, we get them to come back on and take it and Black Crag so we can defend and get two forts.

If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.

So again, what is the good incentive?

Gear rewards are based on RR not game mode. Forts can still reward like any other zone, but nothing particularly special (maybe increased bag chance or something). If they are fun modes, people will still play them. If not, they won't but that is a different problem. In the meantime, those seeking gear as their progression can still get it.

Regardless, current system has to go and maybe suspend forts until it can be fixed. After all the work that was done to make sure people actually fight and participate, I am finding the apparent tolerance of the current issues to be paradoxical at best.

[Chinesehero]

What is the meaning of end game gear??
Invader set is the best gear in ROR???

[Hargrim]

Just wanted to add to this discussion with the following:

Even as I type this, Destro chat is about how, after routing Order in Chaos Wastes and making them log, we get them to come back on and take it and Black Crag so we can defend and get two forts.

If that does not convince you that the current system is effed up and creating the wrong type of game play incentives I do not know what will.

So again, what is the good incentive?

Gear rewards are based on RR not game mode. Forts can still reward like any other zone, but nothing particularly special (maybe increased bag chance or something). If they are fun modes, people will still play them. If not, they won't but that is a different problem. In the meantime, those seeking gear as their progression can still get it.

Regardless, current system has to go and maybe suspend forts until it can be fixed. After all the work that was done to make sure people actually fight and participate, I am finding the apparent tolerance of the current issues to be paradoxical at best.

The obvious problem with this approach is that if there is easier / faster way to obtain "BiS" the fun game part (lets say forts or city siege) won't be played at all.

[Aethilmar]

So again, what is the good incentive?

Gear rewards are based on RR not game mode. Forts can still reward like any other zone, but nothing particularly special (maybe increased bag chance or something). If they are fun modes, people will still play them. If not, they won't but that is a different problem. In the meantime, those seeking gear as their progression can still get it.

Regardless, current system has to go and maybe suspend forts until it can be fixed. After all the work that was done to make sure people actually fight and participate, I am finding the apparent tolerance of the current issues to be paradoxical at best.

The obvious problem with this approach is that if there is easier / faster way to obtain "BiS" the fun game part (lets say forts or city siege) won't be played at all.

They won't be played by folks whose sole motivation is the pursuit of gear. If you remove the pursuit of gear then you remove the problem (and introduce others of course). But if the modes are fun and interesting, I truly believe some chunk of the population will play them ... possibly most.

Fundamental question to ask is who do you want/need to cater the game towards. People who hunt gear? People who hunt achievements? People who just like the game world? People who like the mechanics? People who just like fights? The answer on live was for gear, but they had commercial interests they needed to take into consideration to keep the sub money flowing. Y'all can do what you want here without those particular constraints.

P.S. Also worth saying at this point that even if the game goes in a direction I don't like, I do thank you all for resurrecting it and giving me a a few more years of playing what still is my favorite MMO. This game and CoX were the two games I've ever truly loved playing.

[Martok]

I really only need four pieces on a SW but I have to get the whole set to get the jewellery? Surely you should be free to pick what you want?

I agree with this. The jewel should be open to purchase whenever. Just saying.

On another note the Fort Defense in Reikwald earlier tonight was the most fun I have ever had in any fort instance. Really good fights in stage two.

[Hargrim]

...

The problem with 'fun' (and playing for it) aspect is that there are almost as many definition of this as there are people. And all those people should more or less play here to have a 'mmo' feel of this game. Without population the game will just fade and die.

I agree if there would be a lot of cool small and big game modes the game would defend itself just with fun. But we are not doing game from 0, we have a framework, constrains and limitations. And it takes time. And some people will still not like X or Z .

[Tesq]

...

The problem with 'fun' (and playing for it) aspect is that there are almost as many definition of this as there are people. And all those people should more or less play here to have a 'mmo' feel of this game. Without population the game will just fade and die.

I agree if there would be a lot of cool small and big game modes the game would defend itself just with fun. But we are not doing game from 0, we have a framework, constrains and limitations. And it takes time. And some people will still not like X or Z .

then the team contractic itself most of times, if there are soo many def about of fun in gear progressin then you should had planned to keep go with sc gear prgression, same thing regarding difficulty in fort. as someone said above def a fort then loose last zone and re lock again may happen especially when 1 side is zerging the other (since fort dont allow open pop but close one)
the result fort may very well be opposite than the one of the last zone cap. But this make gear obtaining skyrocket.

aka if gear is the carrot/fun you are giving no carrot in sc and just too much in fort right know which was alredy given to your attention regarding "carots" and some classes requiring 3 set not just 2 with horizontal progression (off, def hybrid). put em wher you want in any order (pve sc rvr or sc rv pve) but put 3 sets..

[Hargrim]

then the team contractic itself most of times, if there are soo many def about of fun in gear progressin then you should had planned to keep go with sc gear prgression, same thing regarding difficulty in fort. as someone said above def a fort then loose last zone and re lock again may happen especially when 1 side is zerging the other (since fort dont allow open pop but close one)
the result fort may very well be opposite than the one of the last zone cap. But this make gear obtaining skyrocket.

aka if gear is the carrot/fun you are giving no carrot in sc and just too much in fort right know.

Great analysis, good luck with running your own game company .