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Rampage - Need rework

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Cimba
Posts: 308

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#31 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:26 pm
Am/bw/sw/sm stuff just by looking at carrier and there is not need to be something op to shatter to have it worth of use.

Edit: red your edit,well first thing first 25% would mean tank frontline cant be prevent that easily to htl in conjuction with cd increase, 2nd 25% is still not mean auto as of now attacks can be parry/block on paper, 25% vs a melee mean if enemy have 30+ (not considering wep skill) is still a slight chance to parry. Plus it make a bit worth more 2h or numbing strike which is definetly the right direction.

For sure leaving it at 100% achive nothing that amuse ppl that see that there is a problem from 10 years.....well if 25 is too much make 20% thats a solid 10% remaining on melee (dual weild+18 renown + 2 from gear).

Another way could be leave it high 50% but make it proportional
If there were any heal AM you would be right but as it is...? BW procs arent really worth it, their impact is minimal nowadays. The GCD is better spent maintaining for example magical damage reduction with BO if that is a problem. SW's VON is a decent enchantment, true. SM's WW is good on paper but very few classes actually utilize it well and then its easier countered with a CD increaser.

In regards to your edit: Complaining that Rampage+Shatter Limbs is capable of disrupting the seamless use of HTL is kind of hypocritical considering that HTL itself is a borderline broken ability.
The main thing I see with the reduction is that Rampage wouldn't simply ignore morales. Which would be a good IMO but could also be fixed on the morales side.
Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:50 pm
tazdingo wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:44 pm
i still don't understand why "just shatter it" isn't applicable here. any group you have 2 tanks with 5 sec cd shatter. if you're really scared of rampage you could take a mara with UC but nobody will do this cause muh cookie cutter build

if we're talking the application of shatter limbs in wb vs wb then oh my god who cares it's wb vs wb, it's a complete shitfest that boils down to can destro coordinate morales vs did order bring enough bws (though i still love it that's all it is)

chosen doesn't get to walk around with capped parry under pierce defenses with zero answer... gtdc is arguably more impactful in pub play and i haven't seen 6v6 players complain about rampage. i just don't get it i barely notice slayers in zerg fights
-Cuz need to hit slayer first (ib can buff parry to stratosphere)
-slayer and other can burry rampage and protect it.
-if you want 2x shatter need leave home chosen and go bg/bo but then you cant sever blessing there are a LOT of good stuff to use server bless so you are penalized anyway.


Nb: Prejudice vs wb play, cuz sc play is not the same thing when played by unaware ppl...lol..

Another problem is still slayer and now choppa aswell using aoe build in sc, i made a proposal for KILL this abuse and fix stuff aswell by bring away heal debuff far onto top of mid mastery yet still nothing move..
It applies in small scale for sure. If rampage were such a big deal any BO could get the CD decreaser and spam shatter on the slayer until its gone... through all slayers of protection. I think nobody does that though because there is no need to. Even without you have multiple chances of shattering it before slayer starts to do serious damage (lets be real, Tesq virtually nobody plays with rage drop tactic because it a pain in the ass)

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oaliaen
Posts: 688

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#32 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:42 pm

Of course rampage works on aoe...

Ok, if so hard to pulverize the most Op skill of the game, just decrease the time of it. 20 sec is a bit too much, decrease it to 15 seconds in Furious and keep 5 secs on berserk. Increase Cooldown for 60 seconds. So now slayer will use it just in important situations, like every skills on choppa.
Silently we bide our time
Soon we'll pay you back
For all the wrongs you've done our kind
For the stabwounds in our backs

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Tesq
Suspended
Posts: 5346

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#33 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:54 pm

Cimba wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:34 pm
Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:26 pm
Am/bw/sw/sm stuff just by looking at carrier and there is not need to be something op to shatter to have it worth of use.

Edit: red your edit,well first thing first 25% would mean tank frontline cant be prevent that easily to htl in conjuction with cd increase, 2nd 25% is still not mean auto as of now attacks can be parry/block on paper, 25% vs a melee mean if enemy have 30+ (not considering wep skill) is still a slight chance to parry. Plus it make a bit worth more 2h or numbing strike which is definetly the right direction.

For sure leaving it at 100% achive nothing that amuse ppl that see that there is a problem from 10 years.....well if 25 is too much make 20% thats a solid 10% remaining on melee (dual weild+18 renown + 2 from gear).

Another way could be leave it high 50% but make it proportional
If there were any heal AM you would be right but as it is...? BW procs arent really worth it, their impact is minimal nowadays. The GCD is better spent maintaining for example magical damage reduction with BO if that is a problem. SW's VON is a decent enchantment, true. SM's WW is good on paper but very few classes actually utilize it well and then its easier countered with a CD increaser.

In regards to your edit: Complaining that Rampage+Shatter Limbs is capable of disrupting the seamless use of HTL is kind of hypocritical considering that HTL itself is a borderline broken ability.
The main thing I see with the reduction is that Rampage wouldn't simply ignore morales. Which would be a good IMO but could also be fixed on the morales side.
Spoiler:
Tesq wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:50 pm
tazdingo wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:44 pm
i still don't understand why "just shatter it" isn't applicable here. any group you have 2 tanks with 5 sec cd shatter. if you're really scared of rampage you could take a mara with UC but nobody will do this cause muh cookie cutter build

if we're talking the application of shatter limbs in wb vs wb then oh my god who cares it's wb vs wb, it's a complete shitfest that boils down to can destro coordinate morales vs did order bring enough bws (though i still love it that's all it is)

chosen doesn't get to walk around with capped parry under pierce defenses with zero answer... gtdc is arguably more impactful in pub play and i haven't seen 6v6 players complain about rampage. i just don't get it i barely notice slayers in zerg fights
-Cuz need to hit slayer first (ib can buff parry to stratosphere)
-slayer and other can burry rampage and protect it.
-if you want 2x shatter need leave home chosen and go bg/bo but then you cant sever blessing there are a LOT of good stuff to use server bless so you are penalized anyway.


Nb: Prejudice vs wb play, cuz sc play is not the same thing when played by unaware ppl...lol..

Another problem is still slayer and now choppa aswell using aoe build in sc, i made a proposal for KILL this abuse and fix stuff aswell by bring away heal debuff far onto top of mid mastery yet still nothing move..
It applies in small scale for sure. If rampage were such a big deal any BO could get the CD decreaser and spam shatter on the slayer until its gone... through all slayers of protection. I think nobody does that though because there is no need to. Even without you have multiple chances of shattering it before slayer starts to do serious damage (lets be real, Tesq virtually nobody plays with rage drop tactic because it a pain in the ass)
You cant mantain overperformig stuff in game just because there are other problems i game...with this mentality is worthless touch anything have a start point and vision.

Also what you are propose to do on bo is dumb why any should go that route and loose all left mastery? For gimp himself? Suggest a route where a comp not gimp himself to counter slayer instead! as i said above there is not.

Also i don't know about you but new rage drop tactic its pretty good for any build, it's basically wrote upon it +25% dmg and remove any meccanic malus jeez..

I'm not answer to rest i've alredy explained what and when happen

"Paganini" dont repeat...and is just useless keep argue if we share 2 diff visions.
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tazdingo
Posts: 620

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#34 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:02 pm

tessqqqqq you cannot take rampage from slayer, blast wave from chosen, te from mara, rift from magus, wods from sm... can't do it. is aoe slayer overperforming in scs i don't know don't really play them won't argue but tackle it in a way that doesn't remove the classes most iconic ability, lest we all become homogenized balls of stats
snb bo can lose thc tho i guess that's cool
it's not about games balances but games heart.

Penril
Posts: 4445

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#35 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:03 pm

Rampage is fine. There are other things way more broken (on both sides) that affect balance in a much grander scale.

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oaliaen
Posts: 688

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#36 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:12 pm

rampage will never be fine whit 100% parry /block strikethrough
Silently we bide our time
Soon we'll pay you back
For all the wrongs you've done our kind
For the stabwounds in our backs

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Tesq
Suspended
Posts: 5346

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#37 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:14 pm

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
tazdingo wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:02 pm
tessqqqqq you cannot take rampage from slayer, blast wave from chosen, te from mara, rift from magus, wods from sm... can't do it. is aoe slayer overperforming in scs i don't know don't really play them won't argue but tackle it in a way that doesn't remove the classes most iconic ability, lest we all become homogenized balls of stats
snb bo can lose thc tho i guess that's cool
it's not about games balances but games heart.
Ahah blast wave???
-50 ap
-20 feet radius instaed 25/30
-20 sec CD
-require aura

This skill have trade out rampage not

Come again? xD

No you dont need to remove these skill but there are criteria in a system which make em balanced.

Aka if general rule of aoe dmg is being half the st (or same for snares on cd) if st cd increse is 5 sec the aoe is supposed to be 2.5 its math.

Its full of core elements in game which litteraly tell you what values stuff should have to be balanced (eff values / cd / eff duration). If ppl want to fake blind and ignore em is not my problem.

Staple a 25% eff on wl/mara have 1 min cd.... So why a pretty sismila dmg boost is not 25% / 1 min cd /last 10 sec ???

Sm wosd? Cool , about BO cant hit me? Why is there still a snare component that high? Why there is not a 10% snare on both skills which would make sense instaed have one without and one with a retarded 60%

Also when taking in account balancing criteria is better keep out kobs/bg/slayer and choppa as being relased post game launch by other teams....
Last edited by Tesq on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

User avatar
tazdingo
Posts: 620

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#38 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:26 pm

cause bo can abuse chm alongside ap feed/greenest/loudmouf/thorns/reflex gear for serious shenanigans

capped block, massive phys reflect with zero internal cd. pls channel vs me i'm so vulnerable with this snare

- zero max range too, who's stacking avoidance these days? there's way cooler stuff to be doing

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Tesq
Suspended
Posts: 5346

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#39 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:28 pm

tazdingo wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:26 pm
cause bo can abuse chm alongside ap feed/greenest/loudmouf/thorns/reflex gear for serious shenanigans

capped block, massive phys reflect with zero internal cd. pls channel vs me i'm so vulnerable with this snare
Again reiterate THAT abuse allow other abuse dont create a fun game (why wosd dont allow proc while chm does? Its dumb it create more problem that fun builds).

Proc should not proc other proc

COMMON SENSE thx.
Image

-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

User avatar
tazdingo
Posts: 620

Re: Rampage - Need rework

Post#40 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:35 pm

if my dumb reflect shenanigans bother you so much then you could always roll a slayer and completely ignore my 75% blo... oh no wait we removed rampage. damn i guess there's nothing you can do

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