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<Feedback> Chosen changes...

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Illuminati
Posts: 130

<Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#1 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:30 pm

Hopefully constructive thoughts on the Chosen changes…

Background – played Chosen on Live up to RR90 in all areas of gameplay. Played Chosen on RoR to RR50

Overall opinion summary: Overall, the changes do not align well with the class while negatively impacting quality of life.

*Tried multiple configurations of tactic builds between < Focused Offense>, <Discordant Winds>, <Oppressing Blows>, <Power of the Gods>, and ‘<Ravage> vs <Cleave> vs <Relentless>’ rotations. Across all builds maximum dummy DPS was ~1350DPS while maintaining AP using <Dreadful Fear>, <Discordant Instability>, and <Discordant Wrath> Auras.

1) <Discordant Winds>: I like the prospect of this tactic, however, due to the nature of the Chosen ‘rotation’, the majority of the damage is already Spirit. Given its nature as a core defining tactic to align with the negative impact to healing (-20%), I would recommend considering the following,
a. Keep the tactic as change all damage to Spirit based
b. Reduce healing impact to -15%. 20 is too impactful with heal debuff stacking in PVP, and tanking while in PVE. The damage increase using this tactic is not impactful (<5% using all rotation possibilities in PVE/Clothies in PVP, small gain vs Tanks) that doesn’t justify the negative impact. It does offer a greater level of increase vs high armor based targets (~15-20%) but I don’t believe the intent of Chosen/KoTBS is to be tank killers.
c. Change ‘Power of the Gods’ tactic to +25 AP gain regeneration
d. Add +15 action point regeneration to <Discordant Winds>

2) Change <Oppressing Blows> tactic to +15% Melee Crit (regardless of weapon used) and ‘all Dread abilities increase damage by 5% while under a Dreadful Aura’

3) Change <Relentless> to always be Spirit Based damage

Note: This addresses the overlap in using 2 tactic slots.

4) <DaemonClaw>: The change to Parry and that this tactic doesn’t auto refresh itself, increasing the downtime between activation very long and limiting the gameplay to ‘guard activations’ only. This has impact to Chosen vs non-melee and it shouldn’t be the case. However In 6v6 it is up constantly due to Parry on Guard damage. I do not understand the removal of Initiative. Recommended changes,
a. Change ‘on Parry’ to ‘on Critical Hit’
b. Add ‘Initiative’ back into the buffed stats by <DaemonClaw>
c. Remove ‘Weaponskill’ and Add ‘Toughness’
d. Defining Chosen as ‘STR/INIT/Toughness’ and KOTBS as ‘STR/INIT/Toughness’ (providing Knights similar benefit/synergies)

Bugs discovered. Not sure if these are related to the introduction of Discordant Winds
1) Seeping Wounds – tooltip not accurate
a. Tooltip indicates 891 damage, actual damage is 771.
b. Tried a few different levels of Strength. The damage is roughly ~14% less than it should be.
c. Tried removing Discordant Winds. Not related to Discordant Winds.
d. Guess: Damage may not be scaling correctly by entering mastery points.

*I discovered many tooltip errors and would be willing to document these all for Chosen (and work on the Math) if you are able to place these in your backlog. It looks like someone was tweaking the math on abilities without any guiding principles (a lot of +/- 10% stuff vs tooltips).

Thank you for considering feedback.

-Illuminati/Killamanjaro of Volk/Badlands/RoR
Last edited by Illuminati on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (60+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

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Klozje
Posts: 8

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#2 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:40 am

None of the changes will change the fact that Chosen is the weakest tank in the game right now, sure people will still use them in WB's just for the auras but even then they're still a poor man's version of a KotBS that offer basically the same auras but can also offer "dirty tricks", "focused mending", "slice through" or maybe "overpowering swing".

The same thing goes for SC's / 6v6, Chosen offers less utility / group buffs than a Knight, meanwhile both Chosen and Knight have poor damage compared to the other tanks...

Hence the only reason to bring a Chosen over a BG / Blorc would be for the utility but considering the fact that a Chosen has very poor utility compared to a Knight then yeah, it makes it the weakest tank in the game atm.

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#3 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:45 am

And don't forget that you only need rr70+ to get the awesome Slice Through, what a bargain!!

Or renounce to either your meager AP restoration in the most AP consuming class of the game, or to half of your defenses, AND having rr60+ to get the amazing Overpowering Swing. What a time to be alive!!
Spoiler:

Hat
Posts: 39

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#4 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:00 am

Ototo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:45 am
And don't forget that you only need rr70+ to get the awesome Slice Through, what a bargain!!

Or renounce to either your meager AP restoration in the most AP consuming class of the game, or to half of your defenses, AND having rr60+ to get the amazing Overpowering Swing. What a time to be alive!!
The amount of terrible builds you post is honestly shocking, I really hope nobody decides to copy those builds and pickup the same 2 completely worthless tactics that you did.

You should never at any point be having any AP issues on a kotbs, but then again, I get the impression you are the kind of person who spams blazing blade and then wonders why he has no ap left for actual useful abilities.

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#5 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:06 am

Hat wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:00 am
Ototo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:45 am
And don't forget that you only need rr70+ to get the awesome Slice Through, what a bargain!!

Or renounce to either your meager AP restoration in the most AP consuming class of the game, or to half of your defenses, AND having rr60+ to get the amazing Overpowering Swing. What a time to be alive!!
The amount of terrible builds you post is honestly shocking, I really hope nobody decides to copy those builds and pickup the same 2 completely worthless tactics that you did.

You should never at any point be having any AP issues on a kotbs, but then again, I get the impression you are the kind of person who spams blazing blade and then wonders why he has no ap left for actual useful abilities.
Yeah, you are completely right. All my builds are 100% not sarcastic, I swear!! I really have no idea how a KotBS works even at rr55, I just spam the most beautiful buttons in my hot bar and hope that the bad red guys die. I also have no idea of any of the game mechanics even though I played it for 10 years. Don't pay attention to what I say, I'm just a dumb white blond gym guy with no brains.
Spoiler:

Hat
Posts: 39

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#6 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:09 am

Ototo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:06 am
Hat wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:00 am
Ototo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:45 am
And don't forget that you only need rr70+ to get the awesome Slice Through, what a bargain!!

Or renounce to either your meager AP restoration in the most AP consuming class of the game, or to half of your defenses, AND having rr60+ to get the amazing Overpowering Swing. What a time to be alive!!
The amount of terrible builds you post is honestly shocking, I really hope nobody decides to copy those builds and pickup the same 2 completely worthless tactics that you did.

You should never at any point be having any AP issues on a kotbs, but then again, I get the impression you are the kind of person who spams blazing blade and then wonders why he has no ap left for actual useful abilities.
Yeah, you are completely right. All my builds are 100% not sarcastic, I swear!! I really have no idea how a KotBS works even at rr55, I just spam the most beautiful buttons in my hot bar and hope that the bad red guys die. I also have no idea of any of the game mechanics even though I played it for 10 years. Don't pay attention to what I say, I'm just a dumb white blond gym guy with no brains.
You can't really pull the "I was only joking!!!" defense when I have seen you post dozens and dozens of truly awful builds. Honestly you should just stop because new players come to the forums for help, and I dread to think that some of them actually subscribe to any of the garbage builds that you post.

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#7 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:26 am

Hat wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:09 am
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:06 am
Hat wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:00 am


The amount of terrible builds you post is honestly shocking, I really hope nobody decides to copy those builds and pickup the same 2 completely worthless tactics that you did.

You should never at any point be having any AP issues on a kotbs, but then again, I get the impression you are the kind of person who spams blazing blade and then wonders why he has no ap left for actual useful abilities.
Yeah, you are completely right. All my builds are 100% not sarcastic, I swear!! I really have no idea how a KotBS works even at rr55, I just spam the most beautiful buttons in my hot bar and hope that the bad red guys die. I also have no idea of any of the game mechanics even though I played it for 10 years. Don't pay attention to what I say, I'm just a dumb white blond gym guy with no brains.
You can't really pull the "I was only joking!!!" defense when I have seen you post dozens and dozens of truly awful builds. Honestly you should just stop because new players come to the forums for help, and I dread to think that some of them actually subscribe to any of the garbage builds that you post.
You are completely right. I should simply never write again a single more comment, neither I deserve to defend myself, how dare I do such thing!! Look at the awfully huge amount of builds that I post... I should be probably banned from be seen by any player younger than 1 year and from the entire use of the Career/Renown builder.

Now, really thanks for your non requested opinion about me, and, you know, to fill a bit your post with a 2nd paragraph with generic random answers instead of the things discussed in the thread, but, again, how dare I treat with sarcasm a person that makes generic random claims and detour entirely from the thread topic!! Bad, bad, Ototo.
Spoiler:

Illuminati
Posts: 130

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#8 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:22 pm

Settle down fellas =)

I think you are both summarizing that the utility that both Chosen/KOTBS offered are now better represented on BG/BO, so why bring a CH/KOTBS?

I would agree with that - both had a unique defining component that made them necessary on live. Crippling Strikes for Chosen and a few of the KOTBS buffs/capabilities. The Chosen was there to counter the KOTBS. The premise on live was that DPS tanks should do 80-90% or so the DPS of a melee DPS class. However, my Chosen here is doing ~50%.

I am hopeful though as the developers here are trying, and putting thought into changes. Let's help them along with feedback and data.

Thanks!
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (60+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

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anrix
Posts: 47

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#9 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:31 pm

I am probably one of the few chosen that thinks Discordant Winds has its place. I don't really play a 2h but I see little downside to this tactic especially for solo roamers. It allows you to remove ravage from your rotation and replace it with cleave, an undefendable attack that now does more damage than ravage because as a 2h you'd have more points in dread than discord. For that alone I think this tactic is worth it. It also increases damage on non-dot abilities and initial strikes of components with dot damage. Not to mention auto attack damage which can be hasten with dominator gear, and str which can now be soft capped for massive crits on auto attack.

IMO chosen got the better end of this deal.

Illuminati
Posts: 130

Re: <Feedback> Chosen changes...

Post#10 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:50 pm

I don't disagree with that, however Chosen didn't get the better end of the deal for a long time. I remember looking at Runefang and seeing what capabilities a KOTBS could do with that and being a little bit jealous. I got over that because they have to wear feathers and look terrible.

Like I said, I think they are on the right track, however, having Oppressing overlap and things like that can be adjusted to build better quality of life, etc.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (60+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

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