Long Overdue WE/WH

[Nekkma]

Good point, but there are some issues with this:
- Healer would better join aoe wb with almost 100% city win probability, than struggling with "single target melee train", i would personally do so if i were a healer. xd
- I am a solo gank mentality guy playing the sologank mentality class, and furthermore, devs themselves told me this is my niche and i should stfu, gtfo and enjoy life with it.
- Even been invited, i keep feeling that if i were a choppa or a maradeur i could do my job much much much much better either in aoe wb or in a "melee single target train", so i feel a little bit frustrated about how it goes.

Playing wb content solo inherently means struggle, an unguarded choppa for instance probably leads to alot of frustration as well. Some class will always be the weakest one and be left outside the more serious groups, it's just the name of the game. About half of my time on live I played with wb guilds as a shaman and I always felt more useful on zealot alt but I liked playing the shaman more even tho it was weaker. I accepted a bit worse performance because it was more fun.

[Atropik]

Good point, but there are some issues with this:
- Healer would better join aoe wb with almost 100% city win probability, than struggling with "single target melee train", i would personally do so if i were a healer. xd
- I am a solo gank mentality guy playing the sologank mentality class, and furthermore, devs themselves told me this is my niche and i should stfu, gtfo and enjoy life with it.
- Even been invited, i keep feeling that if i were a choppa or a maradeur i could do my job much much much much better either in aoe wb or in a "melee single target train", so i feel a little bit frustrated about how it goes.

Playing wb content solo inherently means struggle, an unguarded choppa for instance probably leads to alot of frustration as well. Some class will always be the weakest one and be left outside the more serious groups, it's just the name of the game. About half of my time on live I played with wb guilds as a shaman and I always felt more useful on zealot alt but I liked playing the shaman more even tho it was weaker. I accepted a bit worse performance because it was more fun.

Now imagine your lovely shaman with no group heal for all its live being. Once you had it for a couple of months, but thn some guy decided that single target heal is a key and niche for shaman. Will you play it? What will your guildies think about you utility and perfomance?

[wargrimnir]

Now imagine your lovely shaman with no group heal for all its live being. Once you had it for a couple of months, but thn some guy decided that single target heal is a key and niche for shaman. Will you play it? What will your guildies think about you utility and perfomance?

Sounds like you should stop playing a class you don't enjoy. Casting aspersions towards "some guy" who helps balance said classes is a good way to be further ignored considering how apparently petty "some guy" can be. To cut the ****, you're not subtle, and it's a dumb argument to make. I've shown more than enough willingness to listen to the community while providing guidelines and expectations. If you're going to ignore that and attempt to throw disrespect anyway, that certainly violates the TOS, and I'm happy to enforce it.

Take a step back, and imagine that your ability to affect change will only happen through the people you would insult. That's not going to work. If you want to participate in the conversation and be a productive member of the forums, I would be very happy to see that as an alternative.

[Atropik]

Now imagine your lovely shaman with no group heal for all its live being. Once you had it for a couple of months, but thn some guy decided that single target heal is a key and niche for shaman. Will you play it? What will your guildies think about you utility and perfomance?

Sounds like you should stop playing a class you don't enjoy. Casting aspersions towards "some guy" who helps balance said classes is a good way to be further ignored considering how apparently petty "some guy" can be. To cut the ****, you're not subtle, and it's a dumb argument to make. I've shown more than enough willingness to listen to the community while providing guidelines and expectations. If you're going to ignore that and attempt to throw disrespect anyway, that certainly violates the TOS, and I'm happy to enforce it.

Take a step back, and imagine that your ability to affect change will only happen through the people you would insult. That's not going to work. If you want to participate in the conversation and be a productive member of the forums, I would be very happy to see that as an alternative.

I do not really need the changes, thats the point, i have no idea who made them, and whoever reverted them back, I do enjoy my class running my stuff. The only thing that bothers me right now, - to perform well at this niche, and its hardly doable when you are overgeared by all the others. If there were a spot, a special way, a secret place, a decent spec or some kind of class bonus i could use to obtain all the gear i need asap, (i mean a little bit faster thn joining afk pug wbs) a would gladly do so and forget about wb/group content once and for all. Thats what i asked for since the very beginning.

Kryss already said, No - suffer the way, and ill be fine with it, i will play the game that i want, even through i have to participate in activity i dont realy like, as a class which actually has no tools for it. Its okay, no worries. But you have to admit there is an issue.

Sorry for being rude, ive never mentioned any disrespect to anyone.

[Joshwa70]

Spoiler:

There's no buffs on the horizon for either class mirror.

Just out of interest, is this because the classes don't need any or because there is a lack of resources/ other projects are seen as more important?

Every class could use a little something if we dig into them. Other priorities are up first. We have some backlog already and adding more can be distracting. My statement wasn't to dismiss any discussion on them, but to set expectations that we're not likely to make significant changes in the near future.

What makes that super weird is you always find time to debuff them.

Off topic and counterproductive.

[Brickson]

Adjusting a single skill from time to time to make it act according to the tooltip or to test something does obviously take a lot less time than revising a whole class...

[desizt]

As I suggested on other topic, simply changing 2% dodge/parry on invader/sov belt for melee power to match with Vanq or adding +4 extra would already be a subtle buff that would help the class!

There's no need to overhaul the class or put countless hours into re-inventing the wheel. WH/WE was supposed to be the top ST "assassin type" backline disruptor dps, not a wet noodle which it is now. You are a literal glass when you go for max dps, yet your cannon doesn't even match with 70% of other melee that have way better survivability.

It just doesn't make sense.

But it's probably to avoid all the salt from noobs who will start crying about being ganked if WH/WE would be returned even close to their former glory on live. Which is sad, because the class is supposed to screw up pugs and less coordinated warbands while as organized warbands should consider a WH/WE a considerable threat, that needs to be kept an eye on (right now, literally noone cares, or rather finds relief in seeing a WH/WE in a city over a Slayer, WL, Choppa, Mara or literally any other mdps). You should not be forced to play WH/WE as mdps brawler, but that's the only thing left to do with the class in a warband. You are just a squishier, crappier mdps

[Sulorie]

Queue as duo or group and hope that you are not matched against premade warband with a bunch of other pugs on your side.
Your win rate might be a bit lower but it's not like you can't get sov set. I made it, others made it, you can make it too.

[desizt]

What? That's completely irrelevant @Sulorie!

I run with a guild wb for cities, that's not even what I talked about... you literally didn't even read it before replying.


" because the class is supposed to screw up pugs and less coordinated warbands while as organized warbands should consider a WH/WE a considerable threat, that needs to be kept an eye on (right now, literally noone cares, or rather finds relief in seeing a WH/WE in a city over a Slayer, WL, Choppa, Mara or literally any other mdps). You should not be forced to play WH/WE as mdps brawler, but that's the only thing left to do with the class in a warband. You are just a squishier, crappier mdps "

[Aurandilaz]

I mean technically its balanced, if both sides, upon seeing enemy have too many WE/WH in their city setup, can calculate that their chances of losing decrease and enemy failing to amass enough AoE pressure becomes more likely.
No one says you cannot "win", but lets be realistic, you are then getting carried to victory by other classes that actually have viable roles in the endgame 24v24 warband size scenario fight. And ofc you can queue with friends or whatever, but again lets be realistic, that party setup would improve if they swapped those ST light armor mdps classes to something more sturdy and something that does AoE.

>crap frontline survivability
check
>no AoE pressure
check
>close to nonexistant group utility
check
>mechanic that offers about nothing to large fights
check
>superior mobility?
lol no
>best burst?
nope


Either you need to rethink the whole class and their supposed niche, or you just accept that both WE/WH are least-best-pick (I guess melee Shaman could be worst?) when it comes to a fast moving high burst heavy largescale fights, where vs compared to the 3 (!!!) other mdps on their respective sides, their available toolkits are the least desired, and their "high risk : high reward" ratio is also somewhat of a bad nightmare.

Assuming the usual "not every class can have AoE" is being used as argument (when the endgame fights are mostly about AoE anyway and all other dps join forts/cities in their AoE specs...) - then some day WE/WH maybe should join the ranks of "normal" classes - or get some absurd level of dmg buffs to their ST burst/pressure so that picking 1-2 WE/WH to city becomes as valuable as having 1-2 actual AoE classes (doubt.jpg).