Official Gunbad Dungeon Feedback Megathread

[Aluviya]

As someone who has been running Gunbad nearly every week for years and as the founder of the PvE Discord, which offers scheduled PvE Dungeon runs weekly, I'd like to provide some feedback. Firstly, I understand that the feedback may not sound overly positive, but it's crucial for improvement. I want to offer specific criticisms.

A general note on Gunbad: This dungeon should serve as one of the entry-level dungeons, simple enough for veterans to gather crafting materials and find it attractive for replayability. Let's be honest, there aren't that many new characters in this game, and it certainly needs veterans to guide new players through the content. Additionally, PvE content in this game is where the gap between veterans and new or casual players doesn't directly lead to failure, unlike in PvP scenarios such as in the city, where veteran warbands typically farm inexperienced and unorganized players. With that said, I believe Gunbad needs a lot of adjustments to restore its balance before the ability rework patch and maintain its appeal as an entry-level dungeon with a playability value for both new players and veterans.

• Since the ability rework patch, almost all trash champions are overtuned. Especially the ranged champions seem to deal way too much damage from my perspective, as they now not only rely on their base damage but also trigger abilities.

• Moreover, nearly all monsters, particularly in the middle corridor, utilize crowd control abilities. I feel the current state of CC usage isn't reflective of any dungeon that is intended as an entry-level experience; it's just chaotic. Every monster seems to possess CC abilities, some of which even bypass player abilities like M2 (For instance, the Goblins in the middle of Gunbad have a Snare that cannot be removed). I strongly disagree that every mob should have CC abilities and use them like a fresh Blorc player in T4 Scenarios.

• The Three Heroes in Gunbad Right(Standing around the cauldron) are dealing an excessive amount of damage since the last patch, around 2,5-3k damage per Hero to the entire group - I cannot understand what has been "fixed" here. You can no longer attack this group of monsters without wiping the entire group in a few seconds. I find this unbalanced and unfairly difficult, especially considering the intended difficulty level of Gunbad as an entry-level dungeon.

• The boss encounter on the left side (Glomp da squig) is truly frustrating and lacks any sense of enjoyment for me. Having a creature completely immune to attacks feels like an invalid game mechanic, especially when there's no way to shorten the time it persists. Even killing the spawned squigs doesn't affect the timer of the ability, which lasts for an unreasonably long period. Furthermore, the boss just stands there, contributing to an extreme sense of stagnation during the encounter. This game thrives on the strategic use of buffs and debuffs, and the synergy between them. Simply making a boss impervious to damage needlessly prolongs the content. I strongly believe that mechanics like this should not be present in entry-level dungeons and that this encounter needs a full revision.

I hope these points are taken into consideration for the improvement of Gunbad's gameplay experience. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Aluviya]

Hello,

I think before looking at which individual abilities/mechanics/bosses etc need scaled or tuned down there needs to be an understanding of "how/why" people are running their gunbads right now. A combination of the weekly speedrun currency, lack of desire to put forth a large dedicated amount of time into a PvE task, ideal group comp(from a player/community perspective), and just an overall player base that is split between your farmers and players who need the gear/ward.
A big downside to Warhammer dungeons is simply the time sink. As a casual PUG you're looking at 40-60minutes to clear GB and in most cases a considerably higher amount of time for BS. Between speedrun goals and people just wanting to get through the content and get on with their lives most GB groups are being formed as 1 tank 1 healer 4 dps either to meet the speedrun timer check or simply to make the run faster.
This leads to the player pool to run the dungeon to be heavily split. Speedrunners are not going to invite that lvl 3x or fresh 40 tank or healer in left over midtier gear when there is a chance their group comp will not finish the dungeon or not finish it within the speedrun timer. Now yes we can argue that speedrun groups and prog grups should be seperate but truth is the player base is to small to be splitting. Same thing with group comps. We can simply blame the players/community but why not adjust the dungeon to that being the new norm if it means easier/faster groups being filled and slightly faster PvE? Less time we are pulling people away from T4 PvP should be a good thing?

I think you can still make the content "interesting" without making it dredful for the part of the player base that isn't dragging their Sov buddies and guildmates into their runs to carry them. Make the content fit the community goals could be a healthy thing especially with PvE. The lockouts are still there so it is not like this is somehow going to translate to a higher possible amount of loot or progression.

That said I do think the damage reduction on Mixa's AoE is a good idea however the damage from the green hands is likely causing as much if not bigger issue on that fight? Perhaps tune those two damage sources down and turn the adds into champs so they actually require some sort of attention or phase like mechanic similar to the left wing boss?
Chips encounter, it is not so much the radius of the stun(healers/rdps can stand at their max range and still hit/heal while avoiding stun as is)however the duration of the stun. Even geared tanks can die in this stun window now especially if their defensive buff cds drop at the right time. Mabe take it from the 5? 6? seconds it is now and drop it down closer to the 3second mark. This will still be felt from the healers while allowing tanks with a bit lower armor/wounds/def to not get ripped by an unavoidable CC mechanic. P.S Even had a full Sov SnB Chosen tank die inside this stun our first time through GB sense the changes.

As stated above most groups want to either meet the speedrun check or simply run GB as quick as possible, within reason, and for solo healers the trash mobs most notably in the Middle wing their stacking DoTs/bleeds and debuffs can get extremely dangerous. Bumping the dmg of those mobs auto attacks I think was fine but mabe make it so these effects don't stack? Allowing a healer to actually be effective and cleansing their group while enroute from encounter to encounter. This would be aimed to allow sub 40/lower geared healers a better chance at being effective and there for invited more easily into runs. Yes your beefy groups with geared and skilled players can handle of this with limited issue.

All of this is not meant to take away from the "challenge mode" that is to be speedruns. As is the quest often auto cancels itself even with several minutes left on the time as is. And for most groups to accomplish this within the timer players have had to develop pull routes, strategies, double boss pulls, discipline while pulling, guard swaps, detaunts, etc. There is much that can be done or remain to keep the challenge alive while adjusting certain aspects to fit the community goal for the dungeon. And yes, of course, you can just say build a 2/2/2 or bring a second healer. But I have seen players that are mabe pre 40 or undergeared/still learning get denied groups while their aim is progress because the group is only interested in the speedrun factor. There is simply not enough of a player base let alone constant influx of new players/alts to have people being denied group spots because prog vs speedrun.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Thank you for the valuable feedback. Additionally, I see exactly the same issue, especially the last part that I want to emphasize again. It's not as if people are eager to engage in PvE. Even after organizing it for years, only a handful of people are genuinely interested in this content, while the rest despise it due to the reasons mentioned above. The goal should not only be to "restore its previous balance" but also to rethink it from the perspective of game design to make PvE more appealing to everyone while minimizing the likelihood of repetitive content stretching just because it has some nostalgia attached to it. Of course, nostalgia can be a driving force, but let's face it, Gunbad was, especially when C&T and BB/BE were active, considered dead content.

[mekal]

Personally I say just bring back old gunbad and tune the numbers for new player friendly

The mechanics were far from difficult to anyone that has played a mmo in the last 15 years

Have completed this multiple times as 32 zeal 36 rp 34 wp solo heal with 37-39 solo tank this does not need further nerfs its completely brain dead as is and makes people hate pve

I mean old old BTW where you had to press buttons, avoid squiq slam, kite shades tank and spank for 5 minutes is fun for no one

[Hugatsaga]

As someone who has been running Gunbad nearly every week for years and as the founder of the PvE Discord, which offers scheduled PvE Dungeon runs weekly, I'd like to provide some feedback. Firstly, I understand that the feedback may not sound overly positive, but it's crucial for improvement. I want to offer specific criticisms.

A general note on Gunbad: This dungeon should serve as one of the entry-level dungeons, simple enough for veterans to gather crafting materials and find it attractive for replayability. Let's be honest, there aren't that many new characters in this game, and it certainly needs veterans to guide new players through the content. Additionally, PvE content in this game is where the gap between veterans and new or casual players doesn't directly lead to failure, unlike in PvP scenarios such as in the city, where veteran warbands typically farm inexperienced and unorganized players. With that said, I believe Gunbad needs a lot of adjustments to restore its balance before the ability rework patch and maintain its appeal as an entry-level dungeon with a playability value for both new players and veterans.

• Since the ability rework patch, almost all trash champions are overtuned. Especially the ranged champions seem to deal way too much damage from my perspective, as they now not only rely on their base damage but also trigger abilities.

• Moreover, nearly all monsters, particularly in the middle corridor, utilize crowd control abilities. I feel the current state of CC usage isn't reflective of any dungeon that is intended as an entry-level experience; it's just chaotic. Every monster seems to possess CC abilities, some of which even bypass player abilities like M2 (For instance, the Goblins in the middle of Gunbad have a Snare that cannot be removed). I strongly disagree that every mob should have CC abilities and use them like a fresh Blorc player in T4 Scenarios.

• The Three Heroes in Gunbad Right(Standing around the cauldron) are dealing an excessive amount of damage since the last patch, around 2,5-3k damage per Hero to the entire group - I cannot understand what has been "fixed" here. You can no longer attack this group of monsters without wiping the entire group in a few seconds. I find this unbalanced and unfairly difficult, especially considering the intended difficulty level of Gunbad as an entry-level dungeon.

• The boss encounter on the left side (Glomp da squig) is truly frustrating and lacks any sense of enjoyment for me. Having a creature completely immune to attacks feels like an invalid game mechanic, especially when there's no way to shorten the time it persists. Even killing the spawned squigs doesn't affect the timer of the ability, which lasts for an unreasonably long period. Furthermore, the boss just stands there, contributing to an extreme sense of stagnation during the encounter. This game thrives on the strategic use of buffs and debuffs, and the synergy between them. Simply making a boss impervious to damage needlessly prolongs the content. I strongly believe that mechanics like this should not be present in entry-level dungeons and that this encounter needs a full revision.

I hope these points are taken into consideration for the improvement of Gunbad's gameplay experience. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Agree with everything.

[Absinth]

The cloak should be atleast kept as a part of the set as possible mixing piece and later one a quest should have been introduced to let people get it, however weird it might be. The current approach causes to make 2h bg pointless pre-bis. Before changes you could run 5vw 3redeye for the 710 armor bonus. That allowed your lowbie 2h BG to be usefull in the warbands. Now that you are shredded of that armor bonus you are useless because in the current blob meta you will get obliterated. Im pretty sure other classes also have some issues caused by that making them weaker. Ofc there are probably some outlier cases where it actually makes the class better.

[Yazeran]

We did GB yesterday and everything was fine except Masta Mixa. Fists did so much dmg, that we wipe multiple times. Group composition was tank snb, 2x sorc,we, shamy all 40lvl and dok lvl35. Healers died first from fists and then rest. We had to skip and did everyother boss with no problem. So its look like quite unbalanced.

[Kylashandra]

About the current state of Gunbad :

- CCs on every pack of mob is really annoying. It's not challenging, just very annoying, especially for tanks spending their time CC'ed.
- Hard hitters goblin archers in mid wing seem to have been tuned down a little, they were pretty over the top but seem pretty ok now.
- About Chipfang stun, its range should be inferior to healing range, as it was prior to ability patch. A max range healer should be unaffected.
- Why the change on the Redeye cloak ? Why the hate on Solithex, this fight is fun and challenging.
- Remove the invulnerability status of the Squig herda left wing boss during the add waves, it's unnecessary and longer than the time it takes to kill the wave. Bring back the full initial script with the puddles and stomping squig armor at the end.
- Generally speaking, most bosses had overhead text boxes or animations giving away mechanics which could be interrupted by tank taunt or interrupt abilities, this was an interesting way to make tanking more than just an aggrometer check. This should be brought back as well (Masta Mixa's "Kablooey!" before Knockback, Squig Herda's "you're much tougher than I thought" ...)

Then, to answer some of the previous posts, I'd like to say that PvE content is not mandatory and those who truely despise PvE can just go the full RvR route. If you don't like the "timesink", don't do it.

I am one of those who did enjoy the O.G PvE content, I also liked how it was brought back and initially tuned on RoR. The scripts were mostly fine and interesting, although some were very buggy (BB pit boss and the cauldrons which never worked) but overall it was interesting and challenging and could not be stormed with pure overgear force, meaning it required some understanding of PvE mechanics (how aggro works, heal aggro, group or personal awareness to respond to specific part of the scripts like the squig herds on GB last boss ...), otherwise, even a full sov group could fail badly. That was what PvE content should be, challenging and educative about mechanics of the characters that are rarely use in RvR content. PvE content should not be brute forced through but learned and refined. A good and knowledgeable PvE group, regardless of its gear, could generally overcome most of the PvE content with minimal timesink and it's what the aim at restoring PvE should be.

Therefore, it won't come as a surprise if I say that the whole speedrun concept doesn't sit well in my vision of what PvE should aim at. It only brings bitterness in groups, with people even leaving as soon as they think the speedrun is doomed and limits immensely the opportunity for new players to be able to join dungeon groups these days. What I mostly see also are people only focused on gear level when a failure occurs while the main reason was often a poor knowledge of PvE mechanics. As an example, recently, a SM main tank in BS left group after 2 wipes on the first boss because he was convinced a Redeye WP and a Shield WP would not be able to heal the group while he was mostly responsible for the failure by his inability to swap guard at all, or check his aggrometer (which he probably didnt have installed). Yes, PvE requires effort and knowledge IF you are not able to brute force it in invader+.

PvE is a good way for people who don't have hundreds of hours to sink into their RR to be able to compete in SC/RVR, or for those who want to save their warcrest for sov, but it's an alternate path offered by the game, never was it mandatory.

[Aluviya]

About the current state of Gunbad :

- CCs on every pack of mob is really annoying. It's not challenging, just very annoying, especially for tanks spending their time CC'ed.
- Hard hitters goblin archers in mid wing seem to have been tuned down a little, they were pretty over the top but seem pretty ok now.
- About Chipfang stun, its range should be inferior to healing range, as it was prior to ability patch. A max range healer should be unaffected.
- Why the change on the Redeye cloak ? Why the hate on Solithex, this fight is fun and challenging.
- Remove the invulnerability status of the Squig herda left wing boss during the add waves, it's unnecessary and longer than the time it takes to kill the wave. Bring back the full initial script with the puddles and stomping squig armor at the end.
- Generally speaking, most bosses had overhead text boxes or animations giving away mechanics which could be interrupted by tank taunt or interrupt abilities, this was an interesting way to make tanking more than just an aggrometer check. This should be brought back as well (Masta Mixa's "Kablooey!" before Knockback, Squig Herda's "you're much tougher than I thought" ...)

Then, to answer some of the previous posts, I'd like to say that PvE content is not mandatory and those who truely despise PvE can just go the full RvR route. If you don't like the "timesink", don't do it.

I am one of those who did enjoy the O.G PvE content, I also liked how it was brought back and initially tuned on RoR. The scripts were mostly fine and interesting, although some were very buggy (BB pit boss and the cauldrons which never worked) but overall it was interesting and challenging and could not be stormed with pure overgear force, meaning it required some understanding of PvE mechanics (how aggro works, heal aggro, group or personal awareness to respond to specific part of the scripts like the squig herds on GB last boss ...), otherwise, even a full sov group could fail badly. That was what PvE content should be, challenging and educative about mechanics of the characters that are rarely use in RvR content. PvE content should not be brute forced through but learned and refined. A good and knowledgeable PvE group, regardless of its gear, could generally overcome most of the PvE content with minimal timesink and it's what the aim at restoring PvE should be.

Therefore, it won't come as a surprise if I say that the whole speedrun concept doesn't sit well in my vision of what PvE should aim at. It only brings bitterness in groups, with people even leaving as soon as they think the speedrun is doomed and limits immensely the opportunity for new players to be able to join dungeon groups these days. What I mostly see also are people only focused on gear level when a failure occurs while the main reason was often a poor knowledge of PvE mechanics. As an example, recently, a SM main tank in BS left group after 2 wipes on the first boss because he was convinced a Redeye WP and a Shield WP would not be able to heal the group while he was mostly responsible for the failure by his inability to swap guard at all, or check his aggrometer (which he probably didnt have installed). Yes, PvE requires effort and knowledge IF you are not able to brute force it in invader+.

PvE is a good way for people who don't have hundreds of hours to sink into their RR to be able to compete in SC/RVR, or for those who want to save their warcrest for sov, but it's an alternate path offered by the game, never was it mandatory.

I understand your perspective regarding the speed Q runs. However, I'm uncertain if the issues are solely related to the speed Q mode or if the current state of BS is generally unpolished. The first boss is particularly broken at the moment. It seems to partially ignore aggro mechanics and deals an unreasonable amount of AoE damage, considering it's just a casual path boss and not even the main boss of the wing.

The problem of a tank leaving due to a lack of confidence in the group is not just rooted in the composition of the group, but also in what BS generally offers. At the moment, the only reason for a healer or tank to run BS is if you are interested in the speed Q or the ward. There simply is no other reason.And the concept of speed runs falls apart for groups that aren't well-geared if the content itself is in a bad state. Good gear just compensates the lack of balanced fights in PvE.

Engaging in a lot of PvE content myself, I can tell additionally tell you that I barely know anyone who enjoys BS. It needs a lot of refinement to become meaningful and enjoyable, although I'm not implying that it should become heavily easier. However, there are no chances for purple seed drops, and the bosses and transitions are partially or fully broken. Personally, the only moment where I can enjoy BS is when I soloheal it, which makes it engaging for me and the time spent there is limited due to having 4 DPS with you.

[Ruin]

Gunbad set for Dok/WP could lose its strenght stat from its pieces, for somthing more usefull for the chalice/book builds.

[Schett]

The last boss on left wing needs some rework, right now it's a snooze fiesta.
You kill all adds in just some sec and then just afk until immunity from boss is gone. Either make it back to old mechanics how the boss used to be. Or link the immunity to when all adds die you can dmg boss again. But add a lot more hp on the adds. For a boss fight this is very lack luster atm.

Also last boss on mid wing is just a target dummy, with 0 mechanics. It's nice cus the boss dies fast. But from a gameplay pov it's boring with 0 mechanics to watch out for / have to do