Recent Topics

Ads

Buff Tank ability: Guard

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

In this section you can give feedback and share your opinions on what should be changed for the Return of Reckoning Project. Before posting please make sure you read the Rules and Posting Guidelines to increase the efficiency of this forum.
User avatar
Aluviya
Posts: 135

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#41 » Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:16 pm

Dobzse wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:43 pm Buff Guard: ability with taking it off the global cooldown, similar to kotbs/chosen auras it should have its own cooldown like 0.5 sec but definetly off the GCD.
It's frustrating when I can't guard switch quick enough eventhough I'am already spamming the guard skill on the right party member.

Also Guard should steal a fixed amount of agroo points from the part member receiving the guard. This would be on top of the passive -35% threat you get from the guarded target. There needs to be a 5-10 second internal cooldown so you don't end up guard swapping the whole party to collect agroo.
This change would allow to make pve fights more interesting for tanks and the party as well, as it enabled active threat management. It would also allow main and off tanks to catch up on agroo.

Please discuss give all your pros and cons.
I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.


However, I do agree that this ability could benefit from improvements in terms of aggro management. The current state of aggro generation is unclear; it's uncertain whether it's broken or if there have been undocumented changes to the system. Nevertheless, there's a noticeable discrepancy in performance, especially evident with certain bosses seemingly immune to aggro generation.

Also there is the thing about builds: From my perspective, many shielded tank builds are currently unviable in PvE. Most two-handed builds offer high levels of parry and sufficient damage output to effectively tank content, while also providing superior aggro generation due to dealing more damage. Shielded builds struggle to maintain aggro because aggro generation scales with damage dealt. For example, in Order, a two-handed Swordmaster is likely the best tank you'd want in PvE. They offer high damage and decent parry, making them highly effective. I see no reason why one would opt for a shield, which offers some block chance but risks struggling with aggro control, especially since most PvE content doesn't require two tanks, and finding even one tank can be difficult enough nowadays.

But that said, it's quite clear that the main issue here lies in the guard switching mechanics (for PVE), but rather in the current state of the broken aggro system.

Ads
User avatar
Dobzse
Posts: 71

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#42 » Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:01 pm

Aluviya wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:16 pm I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.
No sorry my experience is based on all types of content inlcuding small scale and even ranked pvp. I am also a veteran with 3 rr 80 tanks, (not to mention the lost rr80 tanks from live..). I like the fact you mentioned small scale ranked. Precise timing should matter. Soo its okay for you that dps/healers are able to switch target while mid casting, because that is considered high level skill play, but affraid if tanks would be more responsive. So you would rather prefer to outplay tanks because guard is too strong as it is.

I would be happy even if it gets nerfed or changed or put an internal cooldown. My opinion that the current guard should be improved considering all aspects orvr/smallscale/pve. I would like to stop here to mention it is better then what it was on live.

I think if all archtypes will be fine tuned and we are in the "tanks" phase then these discussions needs to happen.
Dreadnari - Chosen
Chuckz - BlackOrc
Xalzius - Magus
Dreadclaw - White Lion
Boombastic - Engineer
Dobzse - Knight of the Blazing Sun

User avatar
Aluviya
Posts: 135

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#43 » Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:20 pm

Dobzse wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:01 pm
Aluviya wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:16 pm I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.
No sorry my experience is based on all types of content inlcuding small scale and even ranked pvp. I am also a veteran with 3 rr 80 tanks, (not to mention the lost rr80 tanks from live..). I like the fact you mentioned small scale ranked. Precise timing should matter. Soo its okay for you that dps/healers are able to switch target while mid casting, because that is considered high level skill play, but affraid if tanks would be more responsive. So you would rather prefer to outplay tanks because guard is too strong as it is.

I would be happy even if it gets nerfed or changed or put an internal cooldown. My opinion that the current guard should be improved considering all aspects orvr/smallscale/pve. I would like to stop here to mention it is better then what it was on live.

I think if all archtypes will be fine tuned and we are in the "tanks" phase then these discussions needs to happen.
I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. What does targeting have to do with guarding in this scenario? Just because a healer or DPS can switch targets while casting doesn't mean they automatically apply the casted effect on the new target and bypass every Global Cooldown (GCD) in the process. You can't precast any healing spell and then switch targets to have it apply. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, mostly limited to defensive abilities like Rend Soul of a DoK. Offensively, I can't recall any skills that allow for a similar situation.

It's worth mentioning that in the past, one had to target the defensive target to remove guard, then change the defensive target and apply guard. The current design of guard makes it one of the strongest skills in the game, with no incentive to change anything about it, especially in PvP.

JohnnyWayne
Posts: 188

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#44 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:42 am

Aluviya wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:20 pm You can't precast any healing spell and then switch targets to have it apply.
Yes you can. All life taps and fodg/eov.

Also to mention that you invalidate any opinion as "unexperienced" shows that you are not even here to lead a disucssion. Your only point is "hurr durr ranked". Ranked is so popular, everyone plays it. All day.

Not to mention, that the GCD on guard is not even that relevant in ranked as you usually just punt the tanks away. Imagine guard having a 5 sec internal cooldown. I'd argue, that that would open up new aspects to the game that allow tanks to be more than just guard bots with punts. Imagine forcing guard switches and then swap targets? Double guarding suddenly being an even more risky move? Rapid target switching could actually be a valid tactic and CCs becoming more relevant to mitigate damage.

othr
Posts: 13

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#45 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:03 am

If anything guard should be adjusted so that you can't parry/block it in my opinion, the ability. Also tank survivability needs to be adjusted down especially for those "dps" tanks.

User avatar
normanis
Posts: 1306
Contact:

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#46 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:26 pm

guard is very powerfull already.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2481

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#47 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:49 pm

Guard is an archetype defining ability just like heals are for healers

If we tamper with these ( buff or nerf don’t think it matters ) it is likely devs likely will cause even more ppl playing supporting roles to lose interest

If anything good tank and healer play should be made more visible in scoreboards and such. Preferably directly visibly rewarded by renown gain on guard hit or heal as a main source of ranking up. The 2nd renown pool for healers on live almost got it right
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

User avatar
Aluviya
Posts: 135

Re: Buff Tank ability: Guard

Post#48 » Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:30 am

JohnnyWayne wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:42 am
Aluviya wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:20 pm You can't precast any healing spell and then switch targets to have it apply.
Yes you can. All life taps and fodg/eov.

Also to mention that you invalidate any opinion as "unexperienced" shows that you are not even here to lead a disucssion. Your only point is "hurr durr ranked". Ranked is so popular, everyone plays it. All day.

Not to mention, that the GCD on guard is not even that relevant in ranked as you usually just punt the tanks away. Imagine guard having a 5 sec internal cooldown. I'd argue, that that would open up new aspects to the game that allow tanks to be more than just guard bots with punts. Imagine forcing guard switches and then swap targets? Double guarding suddenly being an even more risky move? Rapid target switching could actually be a valid tactic and CCs becoming more relevant to mitigate damage.
read my post more carefully then.
"you can't precast any healing spell and then switch targets to have it apply. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, mostly limited to defensive abilities like Rend Soul (Lifetaps) of a DoK. Offensively, I can't recall any skills that allow for a similar situation."

Ads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Spazual, Stinksuit and 76 guests