Green Cleanin' Nerf

[Ysaran]

I noticed recently that Shaman's tactic "Green Cleanin'" has been nerfed. I didn't see it mentioned in any patch note. I don't know if it was a stealth nerf or a bug fix. Point is, it was a nerf.

Tatcic works this way: when you cleanse you put a HoT on your target that heal him/her for 900/10s and change with roughly 700 WP.

Until recently the HoTs and the absorbs (the absorb comes from the base cleanse, not the tactic) used to stack. Which means that since the cleanse CD is 5s you could put two HoTs on your target. Now they don't stack anymore.

So now the problem is that if you cleanse your target before Green Cleanin' HoT expired then you overwrite the HoT and you lose half the efficiency of the tactic.

I don't know if the stacking HoTs was intended or if it was a bug, but it made the tactic viable and gave shaman a nice ST support heal at the fair price of a tactic.

The change should be reverted.

The tactic also synergized very well with CD reducer since it would let stack HoTs on your target as long as it had stuff to cleanse. If this seem to strong (which is not since you need CDR and you are wasting GCDs cleansing one single target) put a max number of HoT stacks at 2 or 3. Same thing for the absorb part of the cleanse.

Just to be clear, what really bothers me is the loss of efficiency. If you slot the tactic and have HoT on a target and you want to cleanse him then you have to chose to either not cleanse him and let the HoT run its course or cleanse him and waste half the HoT.

The same is true for the mirror tactic on AM, obviously.

P.s. Please stop nerfing healing Shaman/AM, it is undeserved

[akisnaakkeli]

Damn. They definetely should revert this because it did stack in Live Aor and RoR before this change/accident/nerf whatever but it reallly should be reverted back because now the point of using the tactic is gone.

[Nameless]

Rp got same tactic, noone use it but should be fixed also

[fatbozo]

Donno about shammy but am clense tactic for hot never stacked, in all time i played on this server and my am is 89 rr so iknow... So it was bug...
Imagine if it stacked lol so with ww yo can apply 6 hot at target at same time from one am/shamy that dosent seem right... So if shammy was able to stack clense hots was needed nerf/bug fix... Dont rly own shamy so have no idea.
On other note ams disipating energy got super nerf 13 point ability that cant be used out pt...
And if you play dps am in roams you usaly get tosed in range pt with no tanks or mdps so it uterly usless now...
And if you play solo its even worse...
Rp rune off battle can be used out pt same as zealot counter part, and ams 13 point ability cant.

Malaplava

[Ysaran]

Donno about shammy but am clense tactic for hot never stacked, in all time i played on this server and my am is 89 rr so iknow... So it was bug...
Imagine if it stacked lol so with ww yo can apply 6 hot at target at same time from one am/shamy that dosent seem right... So if shammy was able to stack clense hots was needed nerf/bug fix... Dont rly own shamy so have no idea.
On other note ams disipating energy got super nerf 13 point ability that cant be used out pt...
And if you play dps am in roams you usaly get tosed in range pt with no tanks or mdps so it uterly usless now...
And if you play solo its even worse...
Rp rune off battle can be used out pt same as zealot counter part, and ams 13 point ability cant.

Malaplava

I also have AM, rr76 or something. It was my main a couple of years ago. At that time, I tested the tactic specifically to see if the HoTs stacked. And they stacked, exactly as Shaman's HoTs. I don't know if it was a bug, but it was not overperforming. The HoTs would heal roughly 100/1s, which is not much. You can't stack too many HoTs due to GCD of 1.5s. Specifically you can't stack more than 6 HoTs since WW is 10s.And if you do, you wasted an entire WW when you could have used EoV.

I used the tactic on both AM and Shaman for years and it was not overperforming. If it was a bug then they should make it legit, mirrored on both AM and Shaman. I mean, without this change the tactic is useless. Why keep a useles tactic in the game when you can make it useful without breaking the game?

Also, there is no mention of this change on any patch notes. Which is kind of suspicious.

[fatbozo]

Donno about shammy but am clense tactic for hot never stacked, in all time i played on this server and my am is 89 rr so iknow... So it was bug...
Imagine if it stacked lol so with ww yo can apply 6 hot at target at same time from one am/shamy that dosent seem right... So if shammy was able to stack clense hots was needed nerf/bug fix... Dont rly own shamy so have no idea.
On other note ams disipating energy got super nerf 13 point ability that cant be used out pt...
And if you play dps am in roams you usaly get tosed in range pt with no tanks or mdps so it uterly usless now...
And if you play solo its even worse...
Rp rune off battle can be used out pt same as zealot counter part, and ams 13 point ability cant.

Malaplava

I also have AM, rr76 or something. It was my main a couple of years ago. At that time, I tested the tactic specifically to see if the HoTs stacked. And they stacked, exactly as Shaman's HoTs. I don't know if it was a bug, but it was not overperforming. The HoTs would heal roughly 100/1s, which is not much. You can't stack too many HoTs due to GCD of 1.5s. Specifically you can't stack more than 6 HoTs since WW is 10s.And if you do, you wasted an entire WW when you could have used EoV.

I used the tactic on both AM and Shaman for years and it was not overperforming. If it was a bug then they should make it legit, mirrored on both AM and Shaman. I mean, without this change the tactic is useless. Why keep a useles tactic in the game when you can make it useful without breaking the game?

Also, there is no mention of this change on any patch notes. Which is kind of suspicious.

I use that tactic in small scale from 2016 and it always just reset my hot on buffhead never put extra one on target, was still good tactic... Maybee is just my char cos i track debuffs/buffs on my party, so rly dont know what you talking about... Well its not first time something werd hapening with my am... Had times when my dots do 12 damage crits with 270 magic power for a full week few years ago and was only one i guild with that problem.

[BluIzLucky]

On my Buffhead it definitely stacked, though don't recall checking logs to see if it actually did, but would say 90% sure it did.

With WW you could have 5-6 of them running, making it very potent at countering certain ST classes (rSH), though obviously less good now with nerf to both WW and GCD.

The tactic is pretty dead now as it requires both stacking and WP scaling to be worth it, so we lost some niche small scale ST healing power.

[Shima]

Donno about shammy but am clense tactic for hot never stacked, in all time i played on this server and my am is 89 rr so iknow... So it was bug...
Imagine if it stacked lol so with ww yo can apply 6 hot at target at same time from one am/shamy that dosent seem right... So if shammy was able to stack clense hots was needed nerf/bug fix... Dont rly own shamy so have no idea.
On other note ams disipating energy got super nerf 13 point ability that cant be used out pt...
And if you play dps am in roams you usaly get tosed in range pt with no tanks or mdps so it uterly usless now...
And if you play solo its even worse...
Rp rune off battle can be used out pt same as zealot counter part, and ams 13 point ability cant.

Malaplava

I also have AM, rr76 or something. It was my main a couple of years ago. At that time, I tested the tactic specifically to see if the HoTs stacked. And they stacked, exactly as Shaman's HoTs. I don't know if it was a bug, but it was not overperforming. The HoTs would heal roughly 100/1s, which is not much. You can't stack too many HoTs due to GCD of 1.5s. Specifically you can't stack more than 6 HoTs since WW is 10s.And if you do, you wasted an entire WW when you could have used EoV.

I used the tactic on both AM and Shaman for years and it was not overperforming. If it was a bug then they should make it legit, mirrored on both AM and Shaman. I mean, without this change the tactic is useless. Why keep a useles tactic in the game when you can make it useful without breaking the game?

Also, there is no mention of this change on any patch notes. Which is kind of suspicious.

I use that tactic in small scale from 2016 and it always just reset my hot on buffhead never put extra one on target, was still good tactic... Maybee is just my char cos i track debuffs/buffs on my party, so rly dont know what you talking about... Well its not first time something werd hapening with my am... Had times when my dots do 12 damage crits with 270 magic power for a full week few years ago and was only one i guild with that problem.

Are you saying regen tactic for cleanse doesn't stack with lambert aura? Dude, and you dare to say you play since 2016 with a 89 am? LOL
It always stacked since from live. If it's not working now, may be some kind of bug. Open a thread on bugtracker.

[Aluviya]

Alright, just to clarify. I've been playing AM and Shaman for ages, especially in competitive modes like Ranked Solo and Group Ranked. Both Lambent Aura and the HoT from cleansing tactics stacked, meaning for each cleansed hex or ailment, another stackable HoT was applied to your target. The same tactic was available for Shaman, and if it's not working now, it's clearly a bug. This tactic is quite niche, so I'm not sure where this discussion is going. For this tactic to be valid, it needs to stack; otherwise, it would be an even poorer investment than it already is - especially considering that both AM and Shaman have far better tactics to slot in at the moment. That should settle the discussion.

I just checked AM now, and it clearly seems this tactic has been tampered with without documentation because it used to stack, and the value did not, as far as I can recall, have this high of a contribution tied to Willpower. Additionally, it's not stacking anymore; it gives exactly three ticks of a HoT that seems to have a very high contribution to Healing Power (Willpower).

<- this is with over 1k Willpower (almost on the level of a Lambent tick)
<- this is with 221 Willpower (without gear)

And of course I counterchecked Shaman. And it works exactly the same now. There is no stacking.


<- this is a regular SoV defensive healer build (146 Healing Power)

[BluIzLucky]

Spoiler:

Alright, just to clarify. I've been playing AM and Shaman for ages, especially in competitive modes like Ranked Solo and Group Ranked. Both Lambent Aura and the HoT from cleansing tactics stacked, meaning for each cleansed hex or ailment, another stackable HoT was applied to your target. The same tactic was available for Shaman, and if it's not working now, it's clearly a bug. This tactic is quite niche, so I'm not sure where this discussion is going. For this tactic to be valid, it needs to stack; otherwise, it would be an even poorer investment than it already is - especially considering that both AM and Shaman have far better tactics to slot in at the moment. That should settle the discussion.

I just checked AM now, and it clearly seems this tactic has been tampered with without documentation because it used to stack, and the value did not, as far as I can recall, have this high of a contribution tied to Willpower. Additionally, it's not stacking anymore; it gives exactly three ticks of a HoT that seems to have a very high contribution to Healing Power (Willpower).

<- this is with over 1k Willpower (almost on the level of a Lambent tick)
<- this is with 221 Willpower (without gear)

And of course I counterchecked Shaman. And it works exactly the same now. There is no stacking.


<- this is a regular SoV defensive healer build (146 Healing Power)

It always had 0.9 hp/wp scaling, which actually made it one of the best scaling healing abilities, thanks to the very low base heal (still niche).

So the values seem right.