Break the blob

[LeinadEsoj]

The entire community seems to agree that having a "blob" (from either side) roaming the RvR lake is toxic and not fun at all.

I know there are countless proposals to improve the RvR system, ranging from overhauling the campaign (making the enemy capital siege relevant again) to complex new point systems... well, my suggestion is simple: let’s use the existing AAO (Against All Odds) to discourage the "blob."

The faction that does NOT have AAO will have all its stats reduced by 1% of the zone's AAO value.

Simple and effective. No "reducing renown gain" or other half-measures that don't really solve the problem. Reducing stats makes the dominant faction in a zone think twice before stacking players in the same area, while giving the outnumbered faction a fighting chance against a massive mob of multiple coordinated warbands.

Obviously, this would require a balance pass and likely a restructuring of the open RvR zones to prevent extreme cases.

What do you all think?

Best regards,

Leinad.

[Grublix]

i purposed something simular to this a while back
viewtopic.php?t=60004

From what was concluded its not implementable due to it causing similar lag issues as in LOTD.

[LeinadEsoj]

i purposed something simular to this a while back
viewtopic.php?t=60004

From what was concluded its not implementable due to it causing similar lag issues as in LOTD.

First of all, thanks for the feedback.

Furthermore, I read your post and noticed it involves complex calculations. My suggestion is more straightforward: since every zone already has an AAO/Apathy calculation in place, the penalty could simply be applied to all characters of the dominant faction. This approach eliminates the need for any additional processing.

Regards,

Leinad.

[illumius]

Blob is a simtom. The approach to class balance over the past 4 years has killed the variability of gameplay. Now you can be an idiot, press 2 buttons, run after the crown, and benefit from it. Those who dare to run solo will encounter broken WEs and SH. On 1.4.8, you could assemble a group of different classes on both sides and enter a 400% buffed area, comfortably killing 100 enemies per hour while fighting warbands. Currently, this is only possible on the side of destruction, and only against a very stupid order.

The balance of the sides should not depend on AAO; it should depend on the online ratio of the server as a whole. The lethality of artillery in fortresses should be increased, and the hard mode of bosses in castles should be enabled. It is possible to give the weak side a bonus of +20% damage if the online ratio is 5% lower.

[Grublix]

i purposed something simular to this a while back
viewtopic.php?t=60004

From what was concluded its not implementable due to it causing similar lag issues as in LOTD.

First of all, thanks for the feedback.

Furthermore, I read your post and noticed it involves complex calculations. My suggestion is more straightforward: since every zone already has an AAO/Apathy calculation in place, the penalty could simply be applied to all characters of the dominant faction. This approach eliminates the need for any additional processing.

Regards,

Leinad.

You’re absolutely right. Without getting into in the technical details—which those with a stronger coding or server-side background could explain better—these issues persist regardless. This is essentially the feedback I received when I floated a similar proposal.

To save you some legwork, the most important takeaway from my previous attempt is that blobbing appears to be a deliberate part of the developers' vision for the game. While I don't have evidence to support this, there’s a distinct lack of evidence to the contrary. If you look at the game's current trajectory in the last few years, logic suggests that this design choice is intentional rather than accidental.

[Tushi]

To be blunt, this is a terrible suggestion that punishes the people that aren't blobbing more than those that are.

Not everyone in a zone is contained in a zone blob, as hard as that is for some people to imagine. This change just makes any encounter outside those blobs unbalanced, sure at lower aao the effect is minimal, but it's there and could still potentially be noticeable/decisive.

But in larger aao zones, you would only be making the blobbing situation worse. In these zones you're actively encouraging blobbing on the larger pop side, as now you're inhibiting those players ability to achieve anything without a numbers advantage.

[Nikt]

Blob is a simtom. The approach to class balance over the past 4 years has killed the variability of gameplay. Now you can be an idiot, press 2 buttons, run after the crown, and benefit from it. Those who dare to run solo will encounter broken WEs and SH. On 1.4.8, you could assemble a group of different classes on both sides and enter a 400% buffed area, comfortably killing 100 enemies per hour while fighting warbands. Currently, this is only possible on the side of destruction, and only against a very stupid order.

As a "once and for all marauder" I can guarantee that this is impossible on the Destro side too. Neither Order nor Destro are stupid. And 5 wh party is no better then 5 WE.XD
This game's environment focuses solely on large groups. Hence, the average player lacks the sense that individual behavior is important. consequently, it's better to be in a stupid wb than a smart solo XD.

And you have total right with 1.4.8 I was played on arak Norn with my friend, in duo from 1-100 (Mara-Choppa) and easily reached level 100 with the supposedly "terribly unbalanced Warpforged."

There were so many paths to achieving this goal—some sought "city for fight," others "free city," and everyone could follow their own path.

[Lyreii]

Blob is a simtom. The approach to class balance over the past 4 years has killed the variability of gameplay. Now you can be an idiot, press 2 buttons, run after the crown, and benefit from it. Those who dare to run solo will encounter broken WEs and SH. On 1.4.8, you could assemble a group of different classes on both sides and enter a 400% buffed area, comfortably killing 100 enemies per hour while fighting warbands. Currently, this is only possible on the side of destruction, and only against a very stupid order.

The balance of the sides should not depend on AAO; it should depend on the online ratio of the server as a whole. The lethality of artillery in fortresses should be increased, and the hard mode of bosses in castles should be enabled. It is possible to give the weak side a bonus of +20% damage if the online ratio is 5% lower.

Pretty much this. Good post.

[culland]

AAO and Blobbing are not necessarily related, so trying to fix one with the other is silly. Also there is plenty of times when one side will have AAO and still wining. Late evening Jempire fighting low level pug bands for example. Sure they have 80% AAO, but they are killing way more because they are an organized group on coms vs a bunch of rookie leaders with pug bands of poor makeup. Now you want to reduce the stats of those fighting them? Sounds like a good way to empty the lake.

Ultimately blobbing is the same behaviour you see at solo and small group scales, just at a warband scale. You think the organized 6 man killing solos, lowbies and ungrouped is any different than blobbing?

[lumpi33]

Blob is a simtom. The approach to class balance over the past 4 years has killed the variability of gameplay. Now you can be an idiot, press 2 buttons, run after the crown, and benefit from it. Those who dare to run solo will encounter broken WEs and SH. On 1.4.8, you could assemble a group of different classes on both sides and enter a 400% buffed area, comfortably killing 100 enemies per hour while fighting warbands. Currently, this is only possible on the side of destruction, and only against a very stupid order.

The balance of the sides should not depend on AAO; it should depend on the online ratio of the server as a whole. The lethality of artillery in fortresses should be increased, and the hard mode of bosses in castles should be enabled. It is possible to give the weak side a bonus of +20% damage if the online ratio is 5% lower.

Pretty much this. Good post.

Yeah, I agree. Playing solo is much much harder these days. Especially on order.

The most toxic thing for me at the moment is the destro melee blob running in, mara using aoe kd, choppas doing their get to the choppa pulls, doks running their snare aura so that you are basically instantly snared without even being targeted and they just mow over you. Before you are out of the kd and pull you are already dead or snared. That's such a cheap combo for blobbing. They have also the edge on catching others. Mara pull is just superior there. Just charge and pull, no slow/buggy pet. SHs having double speed buffs from run away and Flee. Dok giving everyone a chance to snare on every hit. WEs with pounce. Then there are the tanks with their shield channel. And so on and so forth. They have a MUCH better toolkit. It's not even close. I play both sides and on destro I barely ever loose a blob vs blob fight. You just let the melees in the front disable everything and mow over them.

I'm telling you, that Mara aoe kd without target limit on a charging class and Dok snare aura for the whole group makes a huge difference, even when nobody wants to admit it. Crazy that only one side has it. And that's before even starting to talk about that op squig pets or WEs.

Bottom line is: On order it is A LOT harder to get away from a destro group/wb/blob.