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[Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine

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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#11 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:29 pm

Yes the theoretical damage of GoN is good. And again in theory you can use it to get more backloaded AoE burst. I am going to list some practical issues, but I want to say I have considered everything you are saying and have tried to force opportunities to make GoN work.

First the range is decent for an AoE, but not huge. You can try to use it from max range which might make you target a tank with a higher chance to disrupt or a better target who might move out of range by the time you get your cast off.

Its a dot that has a cast time and if it gets disrupted it cancels the whole thing. Ice spikes can get disrupted and still land on people. Shadow knives can get distupted and it doesn't cancel the channel. Already mentioned that stuff.

The area of effect isn't great. The area of effect on Ice spikes and especially infernal wave with a tactic is much better. Infernal wave is amazing and really the only thing a sorc has going for it that an AoE BW doesnt, anyway.

Once applied it can be dispelled by a single dispell, the target can die before its early in its duration or the target can move somewhere that doesn't really hit that many people.

You don't have a lot of control over it does get applied easily. A well timed ice spikes is going to stay on way more targets even if you get a group cleanse, a couple of people die and it doesn't matter where they move.

I wouldnt tell someone not to grab GoN, I just wouldn't make it a very high priority ability to use.

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empmoz
Posts: 85

Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#12 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:04 pm

Sorc is such a mess of a class; the aoe abilities are either too close range or too long cast time. The single target spec is great though, but sucks in orvr.

Are there any high RR sorcs that have tips for an effective rvr build?

Caduceus
Posts: 81

Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#13 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:58 pm

empmoz wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sorc is such a mess of a class; the aoe abilities are either too close range or too long cast time. The single target spec is great though, but sucks in orvr.

Are there any high RR sorcs that have tips for an effective rvr build?
Path of Calamity/Destruction AOE Build

Path of Calamity Hybrid Build

These are builds I linked in earlier posts (earlier posts include more explanation). Both are great for mid-level Sorcs in RvR, in my opinion. I used them both extensively, though on the ST/AoE hybrid build I made some tweaks to include Impending Doom.

A slightly tweaked version of the Path of Calamity build is still what I use today at rr83, and I absolutely love it. The ST is beastly and the AoE is still very respectable, especially with Gloom of Night included (though I don't include it anymore these days).

For fresh 40s I would recommend to go for a more group-support focused build, including Tapping the Dark, Frozen Fury and possibly even Infernal Gift (if you like to roll in open warbands, it's not half bad since you'll be running with 3 or more dps in a group a lot of the time).

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

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empmoz
Posts: 85

Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#14 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:07 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:58 pm
empmoz wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sorc is such a mess of a class; the aoe abilities are either too close range or too long cast time. The single target spec is great though, but sucks in orvr.

Are there any high RR sorcs that have tips for an effective rvr build?
Path of Calamity/Destruction AOE Build

Path of Calamity Hybrid Build

These are builds I linked in earlier posts (earlier posts include more explanation). Both are great for mid-level Sorcs in RvR, in my opinion. I used them both extensively, though on the ST/AoE hybrid build I made some tweaks to include Impending Doom.

A slightly tweaked version of the Path of Calamity build is still what I use today at rr83, and I absolutely love it. The ST is beastly and the AoE is still very respectable, especially with Gloom of Night included (though I don't include it anymore these days).

For fresh 40s I would recommend to go for a more group-support focused build, including Tapping the Dark, Frozen Fury and possibly even Infernal Gift (if you like to roll in open warbands, it's not half bad since you'll be running with 3 or more dps in a group a lot of the time).

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
That's some great advice, cheers!

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dwyur
Posts: 8
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Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:58 pm

Build I'm using now as a fresh RR44 Sorc; I get it's kind of a mess of a class, but it's still the most appealing 'damage-dealer' to me on Destro and I'm bored of DoK. add Gloom of Night to this build and it's what I'm having fun with at the moment.
RR44 Sorc AoE Build

Looking at where to spend next mastery points, what should I get next in Destruction tree?
Black Horror seems better to me with the debuff and no cooldown compared to Disastrous Cascade which is basically the same as Surging Pain and 'very very situational' people have stated here/on other build threads. Or should I save the points and go to Shadow Knives? That is what I was leaning towards, to have another AoE spell like Pit of Shades to use when Shades is on cooldown/when I'm not on the same vertical plane as everyone to use ice shades/infernal wave spam.

And in terms of the debuffs with the AoE build, how often do you throw any of the debuff DoTs up at all? maybe to try finish a quishy?

Also the builds going up to Impending Doom in Agony tree; isn't this a waste, due to hand of ruin being in Calamity and essentially serves the same purpose as a one tick finisher?
Dirkfunk - 65 Runepriest
Maala - 65 DoK
Durtknap - 60 Choppa
Dwyur - 40 Sorc

Elvicof
Posts: 22

Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#16 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:23 am

dwyur wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:58 pm
Build I'm using now as a fresh RR44 Sorc; I get it's kind of a mess of a class, but it's still the most appealing 'damage-dealer' to me on Destro and I'm bored of DoK. add Gloom of Night to this build and it's what I'm having fun with at the moment.
RR44 Sorc AoE Build

Looking at where to spend next mastery points, what should I get next in Destruction tree?
Black Horror seems better to me with the debuff and no cooldown compared to Disastrous Cascade which is basically the same as Surging Pain and 'very very situational' people have stated here/on other build threads. Or should I save the points and go to Shadow Knives? That is what I was leaning towards, to have another AoE spell like Pit of Shades to use when Shades is on cooldown/when I'm not on the same vertical plane as everyone to use ice shades/infernal wave spam.

And in terms of the debuffs with the AoE build, how often do you throw any of the debuff DoTs up at all? maybe to try finish a quishy?

Also the builds going up to Impending Doom in Agony tree; isn't this a waste, due to hand of ruin being in Calamity and essentially serves the same purpose as a one tick finisher?
The reason ppl pick up ID instead of HoR is the 40 DM it build, which is a great way to start the fight.

Both GoN and BH have long casttime that are hard to pull of in oRvR and the initiative debuff can be provider from other classes.

If you are going for a AoE build then you are going to be in melee range, so both SP and DC have good use. Most of the times you are going to be near a chosen, so wouldnt bother with the resist debuff. Most of the times you find yourselves only using 1 tick of SK or PoS, as you are on the move all the time.
Moonlapse and VII

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dwyur
Posts: 8
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Re: [Sorc] AoE Builds Discussion

Post#17 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:21 pm

Elvicof wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:23 am

The reason ppl pick up ID instead of HoR is the 40 DM it build, which is a great way to start the fight.

Both GoN and BH have long casttime that are hard to pull of in oRvR and the initiative debuff can be provider from other classes.

If you are going for a AoE build then you are going to be in melee range, so both SP and DC have good use. Most of the times you are going to be near a chosen, so wouldnt bother with the resist debuff. Most of the times you find yourselves only using 1 tick of SK or PoS, as you are on the move all the time.
Makes sense thanks for help. Is the morale tactic to use Shatter more often garbage? Is going for impending doom and the frozen touch tactic for 75% better than chilling gusts & ice spikes?
and what's the best renown build for AoE, Futile Strikes II/Int/Crit% or FSII/Dodge+Disrupt/Crit%
Dirkfunk - 65 Runepriest
Maala - 65 DoK
Durtknap - 60 Choppa
Dwyur - 40 Sorc

Zadorck
Posts: 21

Re: [Sorc] Questions about AoE builds

Post#18 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 pm

nanakaros wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:10 pm
1. The devs forgot to put dmg in Shades of death skill (13th ist tree)(5timesx90dmg)
2. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Black Horror.
3. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Gloom of Night ( stupid low dmg every....3 seconds?!)
4. Why gloom of night isnt in path of destruction (with some kind of rework)?
5. Shadow Knives is a semi-joke skill as well. Basically you should use it as instant 1tick skill because it does dmg every 2 seconds ( gcd 1 second).
6. Infernal Wave 5sec hard cap cd. I'm laughing.
As someone who invested hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing sorc, I strongly advice you to reroll, to save your time.
This guy is completely right, don't waste your time on Sorc for aoe or roll BW that is the stronger for this

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Naelar
Posts: 105

Re: [Sorc] Questions about AoE builds

Post#19 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:20 pm

Zadorck wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 pm
nanakaros wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:10 pm
1. The devs forgot to put dmg in Shades of death skill (13th ist tree)(5timesx90dmg)
2. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Black Horror.
3. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Gloom of Night ( stupid low dmg every....3 seconds?!)
4. Why gloom of night isnt in path of destruction (with some kind of rework)?
5. Shadow Knives is a semi-joke skill as well. Basically you should use it as instant 1tick skill because it does dmg every 2 seconds ( gcd 1 second).
6. Infernal Wave 5sec hard cap cd. I'm laughing.
As someone who invested hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing sorc, I strongly advice you to reroll, to save your time.
This guy is completely right, don't waste your time on Sorc for aoe or roll BW that is the stronger for this
This guy should probably learn how to play the class.

Zadorck
Posts: 21

Re: [Sorc] Questions about AoE builds

Post#20 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:57 pm

Naelar wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:20 pm
Zadorck wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 pm
nanakaros wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:10 pm
1. The devs forgot to put dmg in Shades of death skill (13th ist tree)(5timesx90dmg)
2. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Black Horror.
3. Nobody in warhammer history ever casted Gloom of Night ( stupid low dmg every....3 seconds?!)
4. Why gloom of night isnt in path of destruction (with some kind of rework)?
5. Shadow Knives is a semi-joke skill as well. Basically you should use it as instant 1tick skill because it does dmg every 2 seconds ( gcd 1 second).
6. Infernal Wave 5sec hard cap cd. I'm laughing.
As someone who invested hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing sorc, I strongly advice you to reroll, to save your time.
This guy is completely right, don't waste your time on Sorc for aoe or roll BW that is the stronger for this
This guy should probably learn how to play the class.
You are not supposed to ignore that mains skill of the range aoe Sorc is clearly useless and not worth to use despite ice spike and infernal waves

Aoe Sorc is only decent on melee, while bw is decent on both

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