White Lion Nerf when?

[Ruin]

to be honest i think that punting back and using skills to run/jump of a cliff should also deal fall dmg.

[Sinisterror]

Oh and remove pounce from Sqh! Well that's my solution to why every order complaints about " Can't get away from destro too much CC" And this way no need for nerfs. Re-buff all so destro has goblins Who no one catches (Add Odjra to the game balance every thing out) and order has WL who you can't get away from except maybe Goblins. Keep 5s cool down on Pounce but make it work from air. Same for engi/Magus pull should pull from keep/fort walls 75 ft pulls 4 people. Both sides would have insanely good pulls and no safe zones anywhere. What's your Solution? Keep spamming ae without targets where everyone is too easy to kill or too hard to kill?

[sundey]

I think for me they're just incredibly annoying to play against in a casual/PUG/roaming setting, and I wonder if a lot of the dislike of them comes from a similar place, rather than because of whatever ideas about group balance. Imo, other classes can be annoying for various reasons (shams/AMs dotting and lasering, SHs, WH/WE popping up and nuking you down, rKDs etc etc), but in casual play it often seems there's just no real counter to WLs or the lion.

E.g. fetch vs TE, the latter being easier to defend against, LoS and get away, interrupt, stagger etc. It's still annoying when it happens, but it feels like with Leonine Frenzy up making it immune to everything (even KD which I hadn't realised, thought the 'stun' meant just stagger), there's basically nothing you can do on some classes to avoid being pulled into the melee blob. You can't even flee since lion will still catch you, and on its own causes issues for squishies.

In the grand scheme of balance, it probably doesn't matter, but I think it's one of those things that just pisses a lot of people off, particularly when added together with all the other stuff - being a simple class to play, being relatively tough/survivable while killing ppl in the KD, being extremely mobile, being a melee class but able to stand safely back while lion does some of the work, etc. At least for me personally, I don't think any other class is quite as irritating and... cheesy. Again, in a casual/roaming setting.

I remember it was discussed here long ago about whether pulls in general are too cheesy in and of themselves. I partly agree as from my experience they're often just used to pull into the dominating blob anyway, making them more like other cheesy stuff like past mid-air pounce/self-punt etc; the engi/magus magnet seems better in this regard imo. OTOH, I'm sure the pulls feel like quite a core part of the class for WL/mara mains.