Recent Topics

Ads

Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

carthagerising
Posts: 16

Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#1 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:31 pm

Hi all,

ok so it seems to me that we should change how the keeps work. This is due largely to the massive increase in player numbers but also the way in which many now seem to play the game.

Zones have now become quite quiet as far as fighting goes, until an attack is launched. Then suddenly, 100 or more ppl magically appear and get inside the keep, no matter what the attackers do and it can result in sieges failing over and over again due to there seeming to be a critical mass at which point a keep cannot be taken.

This happens to both sides. Recently order will reach CW and get multiple sieges underway, only for huge numbers of destro to casually stroll in and make the siege impossible, this also applies in reverse.

It would seem to be a good idea to make it so that you cannot release and get inside a keep if the outer door is tagged. This would mean that defenders would actually need to find a way through the cordon or even be in place before hand to repel the attack, rather than casually sitting in IC/altdorf waiting for a potential farm.

With the huge increase in player numbers, keeps are losing some of their fun. once there are 100s of players inside a keep you can basically forget it or at least know that the keep will now take hours to take. Surely allowing the attacker to actually siege and cut off reinforcements efficiently, while still enabling those who want to to have a way in would be for the best. I think this would be a net benefit for both sides as it seems ridiculous that you can be anywhere in the game world and get inside a keep no matter what simply by dying in the greater area of the keep. This would force defenders to perhaps sally out of a postern to hook up with their reinforcements and force people to be more active around potentially vulnerable keeps as well as making the attacker more active around the keep cutting off said reinforcements, which now is largely pointless.

Currently it seems as if many on both sides just wait for these attacks to kick off before getting involved and while back in time with the old player numbers this wasnt so bad, it seems as if the system should be re-evaluated given the much higher pops now.

If this idea is not liked, then perhaps just reducing the range at which you can get inside after dying would work but either way sieges should be adjusted to allow the attacker to actually....you know...siege.

Ads
User avatar
adamthelc
Posts: 729

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#2 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:19 pm

I dont like that you can respawn in keeps at all. Dont know why they ever put that in the game.

Not a huge issue, but I definitely agree people shouldnt be able to just die outside a keep that is being sieged and just be able to respawn inside.

User avatar
wonshot
Posts: 524

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#3 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:02 pm

+1

Nothing feels worse than cutting a supplyline and knowing they will just made in though some distance check and will be spawning inside the keep anyways. Making attackers work on coordinating a real besiege of a keep to stop reinforcements, even on the other would make for a great addition with these high numbers lately.
Bombling BW RR 88 [Thundercats]
https://www.twitch.tv/bomblingtv Full sov AoE Fireclown nerd
"Real(m) Talk" weekly talkshow on Fixxer's channel -Patchnotes, meta, balance & more.

R3xz
Posts: 53

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#4 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:38 pm

What do you think about having limited respawn inside of a keep while it's being sieged? Like having 3-5 limited respawn and after that you cannot respawn there anymore. This would encourage healers to actually ress people, and flanks or assault to the outside would be riskier if you died and couldn't get ressed, taking up your respawn "credit". This also encourage attackers to snipe defenders with rdps or pull them down to kill them. Perhaps siege weapons could see a buff or rework to make them useful for stuff like this.

User avatar
Aethilmar
Posts: 187

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#5 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:05 pm

Your proposals don't take into account what happens when there is 40-60% AAO. Basically with those odds and no rez inside the keep there will be no opposition.

But maybe that is your actual goal to get the flips and get to Fort/City (which, to be fair, is now the point of the game and not the actual fights).

Starx
Posts: 78

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#6 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:07 am

I remember when this change happened, I was pretty outspoken about it but we have to understand how things where back then.

In NA for a very long time you had less than 100ppl in t4 at a time, a single WB attacking a keep could totally just keep any defenders from getting in at all. We used the arguement of "Well then I guess ppl will have to actually group up and push to get into their keep to defend" but ya when the zones were like 40v20 or whatever and 12 out of those 20 were 2 six mans doing their own thing it wasn't even feasible.

Now the respawning in the keep is just a hinderance and makes attacking more painful than it already is having to deal with AoE cannons ripping you a new asshole, 100 engineers/maguses on the wall etc... Most zones are like 200vs200+ and even at the deadest times its like 200v100, theres no excuse for those 4 warbands worth of ppl to use a few brain cells group up and make a push to their pastern to get in.

Right now the strat that works is simple pushing 2-3 endzones at a time, splitting up the defenders across those zones, trying to sneak in an outer kill then calling everyone into that zone because now FINALLY you can keep the defenders from bunkering up.

carthagerising
Posts: 16

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#7 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:11 am

R3xz wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:38 pm
What do you think about having limited respawn inside of a keep while it's being sieged? Like having 3-5 limited respawn and after that you cannot respawn there anymore. This would encourage healers to actually ress people, and flanks or assault to the outside would be riskier if you died and couldn't get ressed, taking up your respawn "credit". This also encourage attackers to snipe defenders with rdps or pull them down to kill them. Perhaps siege weapons could see a buff or rework to make them useful for stuff like this.
b
If some kind of system like that could be implemented it would probably go a long way towards helping the situation we now see. But it sounds like much more work for the team than my proposal and I think we always have to consider that when making suggestions. I have zero experience in design and so have no idea how easy/hard such a credit system would be to implement but if it was possible then it would certainly be worth a try before cutting it off altogether but Im going to imagine it would be much harder to implement than my idea.
Aethilmar wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:05 pm
Your proposals don't take into account what happens when there is 40-60% AAO. Basically with those odds and no rez inside the keep there will be no opposition.

But maybe that is your actual goal to get the flips and get to Fort/City (which, to be fair, is now the point of the game and not the actual fights).
That is a fair point. Although obviously I would like constant city pops it cannot be so common to have cities and any change would need to be balanced around enabling even outnumbered defenders a chance to give opposition. But with the way the game now seems to play, a faction can be on a roll pushing through the zones only to get endlessly bogged down in the final zone by the sudden appearance of 100s of defenders. The last week plus has seen countless examples of this in the end zones during EU prime time, thus my proposal but I do accept it needs to be carefully balanced to enable opposition even when out numbered. But it seems to me that even at reasonable AAO, it would still be possible for a wb to push to a postern and if an attacker can truely surround a keep then they deserve the zone. Perhaps just limiting the respawns distance from the keep would work better, perhaps a range of 60 feet from the posterns or main door instead of preventing it altogether.

The goal is largely to increase the fighting and encourage more people to take part in the final zones rather than the reality we now see all to often.

carthagerising
Posts: 16

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#8 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:31 am

The situation i described and I believe needs fixing is happening right now in CW.

We, destro, got absolutely rekt in Praag by a much larger order force, moved on to CW and got farmed in the WC. soon as the keep got attacked, suddenly 250 destro or near abouts and it was all over for order.

It just feels broken.

Ads
User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1401
Contact:

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#9 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:48 am

carthagerising wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:31 am
The situation i described and I believe needs fixing is happening right now in CW.

We, destro, got absolutely rekt in Praag by a much larger order force, moved on to CW and got farmed in the WC. soon as the keep got attacked, suddenly 250 destro or near abouts and it was all over for order.

It just feels broken.
This has nothing to do with rezzing and more to do with players.
These players just wait to farm and have no intention of doing real fighting, they want easy kills, fort contribution and city. Doubt they had any intention to actually save CW

carthagerising
Posts: 16

Re: Disabling reviving inside a keep if outer door is tagged

Post#10 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:23 pm

Your not wrong, but the rules and system must take into account the players. If the system can be so easily and effortlessly abused then it needs fixing. Acting as if this will somehow right itself because its a player issue is basically putting your head in the sand.

Also Cw was defended the first time and in previous days has been so for many hours.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arabro, CenturionTeri, Chill1318, StormTrooper and 32 guests

cron