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Parsifal
Posts: 6

Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#1 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 pm

I'm a brand new player, and I was wondering if there is a list or guide anywhere on the pros/cons/roles of each of the classes in-game. I've tried searching, and couldn't find much other than generic things like "Archmage is bad, use runepriest", or "Ironbreaker is too hard for beginners, play KotBS instead". I haven't found anything that actually talks about pros, cons, and play styles for each of the different class types. With so many different tanks, dps, and healer archetypes, I can't imagine they all play the same!

I started out at a KotBS since it sounds like a generally all-around good tank class, but I am really interested in learning more about the other classes before I get too far in.

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Mystry
Posts: 412

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#2 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:45 pm

Given that there are 12 classes for each side, that's kind of an extensive list. I guess I can run through the Order tanks though, since you already made KoTBS.

KoTBS:
Pros:
By far the simplest and easiest Order tank to play.
Auras are ridiculously good and everyone wants them.
Very large and ostentatious helmets.
Cons:
By being simple, they are also boring to play (in comparison).
Lowest damage of all the tanks.
No real self sustain.

Role: King of the Group Support. Makes groups better just by existing because of how good auras are.

Ironbreaker:
Pros:
Highest self sustain of all the tanks.
Very, VERY good for soloing or duoing.
Has a lot of utility and self buffs that propagate to their oath friend (they can choose one person to get copies of their buffs. Kind of)
Cons:
Almost no group support outside of Oath Friend.
Very complicated to play, have to juggle grudges and buffs constantly.

Role: King of the Roamers. Best when alone or with one partner to share buffs with, and smush folks with big hammers.

Swordmaster:
Pros:
Highest overall damage of all the tanks.
Able to do tanking with a two handed weapon (if you want, warbands still want shields for hold the line)
Deals mostly spirit damage, so bypasses armor.
Steals stats from enemies to give to your group.
Cons:
A tiny amount of self sustain, but not enough to make a difference.
Not much utility; what it does have has to be specced for (like knockdown)

Role: King of the DPS Support. No other tank is better at pairing with a melee DPS and putting big pressure on one target.

Now watch KoTBS/IB mains come in and tell me I've got it wrong (my tank is a SM so I know them best.)

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#3 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:19 pm

Parsifal wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 pm
I'm a brand new player, and I was wondering if there is a list or guide anywhere on the pros/cons/roles of each of the classes in-game. I've tried searching, and couldn't find much other than generic things like "Archmage is bad, use runepriest", or "Ironbreaker is too hard for beginners, play KotBS instead". I haven't found anything that actually talks about pros, cons, and play styles for each of the different class types. With so many different tanks, dps, and healer archetypes, I can't imagine they all play the same!

I started out at a KotBS since it sounds like a generally all-around good tank class, but I am really interested in learning more about the other classes before I get too far in.
Hey there, one of the problems of the game is that due to the lack of progression of content beyond the original game, most players are kind of in the end game, so their vision/experience will differ quite a bit from yours. Until the point where you know enough to make your own conclusions anyway.

Here's a bit of a look on the surface, I'll try to do as many classes as I can until my energy runs out :D :

Tanks:
Spoiler:
1) Kotbs - playstyle is very standard tank, mostly buffing/debuffing, not much damaging. You will usually go on the front lines and try to set up enemies to be killed and your allies to not be killed.

Pros:
- Pretty much the meta tank pick, quite sturdy
- Great buffs/debuffs, contribute a lot to a group
- Desirable in groups, will always find a use for it wherever you go
- Easy to pick up and learn, also easy to learn the intricacies of tanking in rvr with

Cons:
- Very low damage
- If you ever feel like going 2h bruiser build for fun...well, you CAN, but you won't do any damage and probably won't have a lot of fun
- Lots of opinions that it can get boring - the people who find it fun are usually the purists who like to do their job properly
- You live or die by your group

2) Swordmaster - playstyle differs, you'll either go 2h (which most do because of the class fantasy) and become a bruiser, or be dedicated to buffing the group with whispering winds, a super powerful late talent that reduces cooldowns.

Pros:
- 2h build can be great fun, can hit super hard with it
- One of the most fun to level with, gets absurdly, hilariously powerful at rank 29 when you get ether dance, can drop healers in scenarios within seconds, fun until then as well
- Variety between builds for fun, you can switch from 2h to tank and still be viable
- Whispering winds with an organized warband can be very fun

Cons:
- 2h build is weak in large-scale fighting. Not useless, but not amazing for sure
- You don't get much beyond whispering winds, not nothing but less than other tanks

3) IB (my least played, so may be a bit wrong here, will happily edit if someone can correct) - bit of a "small scale" tank, you're kind of not tanking for the zerg but for a part of it. Think of it as an offtank in pvp. Focused more on one person.

Pros:
- Amazing when duo'd or in small groups
- You do a lot on your own and rely less on your group
- Very engaging class, IB players either quit or fall deeply in love with it

Cons:
- Can be hard to play
- 3rd least desired tank for warbands - although still a desired tank, which is usually enough
- Game can be mostly large-scale stuff which is your weaker side
Moving onto healers:
Spoiler:
1. Runepriest - meta mostly single target healer. Think your standard "priest" character.

Pros:
- Strong, desirable healer
- Top dog single target heals
- Everyone will love you
- Tends to be rare and niche, so even more desirable

Cons:
- No damage, no chance to do damage, so little variety
- Need to love healing to stick to it

2. Archmage - a more nuanced healer who can give you more of a challenge OR the absolute top dog of 1v1 fights if you choose to specc that way

Pros:
- Healing as an AM can be challenging
- Can specc dps and have fun with it and respecc healer and have fun with that, great variety
- Variety of skills, engaging playstyle
- Will obliterate anything that dares to engage you alone, without question

Cons:
- 3rd best healer, but like IB still a healer so still usually desired enough - groups will need 1 of you usually
- People will hate you if you dps. Slightly less if you ress as well.
- Dps AM does not have a lot of aoe - so you will be a bit useless in large-scale
- The hybrid playstyle you might feel you can do at a lower level will not really work in endgame

3. Warrior Priest - a mobile fortress that sprays aspirine around it. Can also hit ok with a hammer if you can bother grinding the gear or play the playstyle you might think a WP should play if you slap on a shield (that is the melee, frontline healer playstyle)

Pros:
- Very, very durable, great at healing while being hit
- Top dog aoe healer
- Melee healer build is quite ok
- Not the most gear dependent class if you go healer
- Can go out in pve and solo almost anything, quickly at that

Cons:
- While leveling it takes quite a while to be able to heal properly, lots of key skills locked behind levels
- 2h build needs dedication, isn't the best
Melee dps:
Spoiler:
1. Witch Hunter - single target, stealth, usually the guy roaming the zone picking afkers off.

Pros:
- Stealth + mobility means you CAN find solo kills if you wish
- Can be built to drop single targets very quickly
- The looks and class fantasy are 10/10 amazing and basically make it worth playing despite the cons

Cons:
- Considered the weakest out of all the classes in the game currently.
- Extremely gear dependent for some of the meta speccs
- You will only really find a group if you spend months getting the top gear OR finding friends willing to take you - even if some say it's not that weak that's totally besides the point, because there are still lots of dedicated very geared WHs who people will take over you even if they will take a WH (which many won't)
- Very weak in large-scale or even kinda mid-scale
- No great escape/survivability mechanism or sustain (main reason for the above)
- Some speccs you might have to go through while gearing up can get boring
- The biggest con for me is that leveling a WH can be a pain, it takes a while to even get to stealth (before which its really not great) and then it takes a while to unlock absolutely critical skills

2. White Lion - super versatile melee dps with a pet, easily going in and out of the melee with a plethora of options on how to specc and customize playstyle, can be aoe wrecking ball or single target nuker. Bursty, rather than sustained dps.

Pros:
- Very meta, almost always has been, devs like the class and it shows - not in its strength, but in how its remained pretty nice to play for such a long time
- Pounce is very fun, fetch can be quite fun too
- You can switch from a small-scale to a large-scale specc easily, a lot remains the same, also there are meta speccs but you won't suffer from experimenting for fun
- While gear dependent in a way, you can excel with low levels of gear as well

Cons:
- Pet management can get very annoying. It can really make you appreciate how unpolished this game was.
- Not the solo roaming class it once was
- Some builds and playstyles are very gear dependent

3. Slayer (again, correct me here, not my most knowledgeable subject) - pretty solid aoe melee dps, get stuck in the melee and make lots of numbers appear

Pros:
- The meta aoe dps right now
- There's a need for slayers usually
- Fun to level, you can do single target for scenarios and run an assist train or really turn around scenarios by yourself

Cons:
- Your final piece of gear after months of gruelling grinding and slaughtering thousands of evil enemies is a diaper
- You'll want to go 2h axe, but you'll probably go dual wield
- I guess less mobile than a WL because of no pounce
- Bad for soloing
Ranged:
Spoiler:
1. Bright Wizard - sit in the back, fling fire, make things go boom, get big numbers

Pros:
- Big numbers
- Can have fun going from aoe to single target speccs
- Lots of your spells look/feel cool like snapping your fingers to explode stuff, throwing a barrage of fireballs, exploding the air around you
- Pretty great class fantasy, your skill is to make yourself explode the stronger you make enemies explode
- Leveling is chill, you get a lot of tools early on

Cons:
- Bit one-dimensional in staying behind and making numbers appear
- Chill also means it can be a bit less engaging than other classes I guess

2. Engineer - lots of different playstyles, I've only played a few such as the sniper pewpew from the walls or grenades for aoe ranged. Has a weird keg heal specc and magnet, hope someone else can fill in the blank here

Pros:
- Can be fun even when losing since you'll still get to pewpew some enemies
- You can join the bitterstone thunderers which is pretty cool
- As mentioned a LOT of variety for a dps in your speccs/playstyle

Cons:
- Some speccs are very gear dependent
- While desirable in groups if you are skilled, the number of engis is a lot higher than its desirability generally

3. Shadow Warrior - either a long range slow single target nuker or short range kind of aoe or sitting behind debuffing then going in to deal a LOT of burst as melee

Pros:
- Cool class fantasy, for XxXLegolassXxX people but not as cringe
- Pretty great in open rvr zerg, you'll feel like you're contributing even if you're not the greatest
- Ends up becoming strong once you gear it up
- One of the few classes in the game that can play ranged (both aoe or not aoe) OR melee depending on your mood
- Can be pretty engaging to play

Cons:
- Overpopulated compared to the amount its needed normally, you might feel like a drag because you're the 6th SW in your group that really needs some other class
- Aoe specc is not the strongest
- Single target long range specc is a bit slow and monotonous, some swear by it but its the least popular
- Melee specc is extremely gear dependent, you CAN play it before endgame gear, but most will advise you not to
- Can be a bit of a rollercoaster class, you get great highs when stuff is going well and low lows when its not
- Somewhat annoying to level because melee is quite weak while leveling, lots of core aoe skills locked behind levels
Wow I managed to get them all over the course of a few hours :D Now please some correct me where I got it wrong!

I should also stress - this is intentionally an "on the surface" kind of info, intended for a new player. Not in-depth, meta, core info.

Parsifal
Posts: 6

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#4 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:46 am

You are officially my hero Vandoles!! That was extremely detailed and insightful - thanks to both of you!! I think it should be stickied for other new players like myself.

Based on your descriptions, I think I'm going to go for either ironbreaker or warrior priest - they seem to fit my play style the most.

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#5 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:07 am

Parsifal wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:46 am
You are officially my hero Vandoles!! That was extremely detailed and insightful - thanks to both of you!! I think it should be stickied for other new players like myself.

Based on your descriptions, I think I'm going to go for either ironbreaker or warrior priest - they seem to fit my play style the most.
No worries dude, I could do a destro one as well, but I'm guessing you've chosen your side.

You may want to wait a day or two - I've basically played no dwarves except engi past r20 and I have an ok idea how they seem, but people may correct me.

Take your time choosing, this game is a bit unique in that with many classes you get absolutely no idea how it'll feel in endgame/later stages of the game until you're actually there. Personally I've abandoned 5 r40 characters so far once I found out they got to a place I didn't like them at all.

abezverkhiy
Posts: 210

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#6 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 am

Vandoles is spot on in many ways.

From my personal experience - for tanks go IB. Having levelled one I tried to level SM but stuck in 20s cause I got bored. IB is the best. You will never get bored and you will find your ways to play it. I do not feel like playing piano when I play IB although IB has more abilities to be used comparing to other classes.
MDPS - all 3 are super different AND fun. Unlike with tanks I enjoy both WH and SL (never played WL). WH is a rogue, SL is melee aoe destroyer. Different strategies to be utilized, better try both. SL is simpler to master.
RDPS - played only ENG. Defensive type, aoe damager that makes damage numbers all over my screen in mass pvp. This is a super social class, esp grenadier spec.
Healers - I prefer WP over RP. I love this mobile fortress, super healer esp in aoe.

Other classes I never played or didn't level past level 10.
Valknutt WP, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL, Glenturret ENG, Vanhelsen WH

User avatar
xruptor
Posts: 111

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#7 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 pm

Super weird...

This topic is listed under:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41013

But there was another one with the exact same title and had my response here.
viewtopic.php?f=113&t=41015

I was wondering why my response magically vanished.

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#8 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm

Spoiler:
xruptor wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 pm
Super weird...

This topic is listed under:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41013

But there was another one with the exact same title and had my response here.
viewtopic.php?f=113&t=41015

I was wondering why my response magically vanished.
Not sure where to respond then, seems like beginner survival kit would be better but...hey, hopefully my reply gets duplicated too :P

I will TRY to do destro as well, but small disclaimer - while I used to be a destro main, I play more order these days. So if some info is outdated, I'd appreciate a destro to correct me. Also some text will be copied from the previous one, since some classes have mirroring pros and cons with differences more in the details and how they get there.

So,

Tanks:
Spoiler:
1. Chosen - playstyle like kotbs, front line debuffer/buffer pushing the line, setting up enemies to be killed and allies to not be killed. Difference from KotBS is Chosen has a decent damage build - you can take a big axe and bludgeon people slowly (or not so slowly) but surely to death.

Pros:
- Pretty much the meta tank pick, quite sturdy
- Great buffs/debuffs, contribute a lot to a group
- Desirable in groups, will always find a use for it wherever you go
- Easy to pick up and learn, also easy to learn the intricacies of tanking in rvr with
- Has a great 2h build

Cons:
- Some opinions that it can get boring - the people who find it fun are usually the purists who like to do their job properly
- You live or die by your group
- 2h build is great while leveling and geared but has a bit of a long gap when you just reach endgame before you can gear up to have it shine properly

2. Black Orc - pretty cool playstyle where you kind of try to control the flow of a fight - knockdown a target to kill, knock people back, jump in and survive (you're quite tough), slow who you think should be slowed. Lots of buffing your group mates. 2h build allows you to hit very hard while remaining tough.

Pros:
- Tough and engaging tank to play, you'll feel like you're a very active part of the group and rarely like a punching bag
- 2h build can be great fun, can hit super hard with it. Can also build a tankier 2h than some other tanks
- Great class feel, you do feel like da toughest, kick people in the balls, all the stuff

Cons:
- Lower variety in builds, there's a very meta build that is often even recommended for 2h
- Somewhat gear dependent, leveling can have low points

3. Blackguard - buffer/debuffer tank, similar to IB in being a good "bodyguard" tank but probably more often used as a frotline, leading the charge kind of tank. 2h build is very popular and actually meta, with it you're not your bog standard 2h tanky bruiser but a lot more of a 2h melee dps with additional survivability as you aim to focus on one specific debuff.

Pros:
- Very engaging playstyle both as 2h and pure tank
- People will actually want you as a 2h in groups
- Can be built to be absurdly strong in 1v1s
- You can build to hit very, very hard
- Has a lot of little tricks, tips, specifics to play with

Cons:
- Can sometimes feel there are more BGs than there is a need for
- 2h build will get you close to melee dps territory, rather than a tank reaching out towards mdps
- Can be considered less meta as a tank
- Leveling can become bogged down, you may feel weak until you unlock certain skills/combos/tactics
Healers:
Spoiler:
1. Zealot - meta mostly single target healer. Think your standard "priest" character.

Pros:
- Strong, desirable healer
- Top dog single target heals
- Everyone will love you
- Leveling can be very fast and easy because you will empower a team massively just by being there
- Has fun skills to have a laugh here and there like an aoe knockback and a "stun" (stagger, if you know what it is)

Cons:
- No damage, no chance to do damage, so little variety
- Need to love healing to stick to it

2. Shaman - THE kiter of the game. A more nuanced healer who can give you more of a challenge OR the second top dog of 1v1 fights if you choose to specc that way. You will run around a lot.

Pros:
- You can run away from a warband of angry orders successfuly
- You can kite almost anything to death without so much as being touched
- The enemy requires a lot of effort and coordination to touch you in general
- Fun if you like being very, very slippery
- Healing as an shaman can be engaging and challenging
- Can specc dps and have fun with it and respecc healer and have fun with that, great variety
- Variety of skills, engaging playstyle
- Will obliterate anything that dares to engage you alone EXCEPT for Archmages

Cons:
- People may hate you if you dps. Slightly less if you ress as well.
- Dps shaman does not have a lot of aoe - so you will be a bit useless in large-scale
- The hybrid playstyle you might feel you can do at a lower level will not really work in endgame
- You may get a bit disgusted by yourself after running away from dozens of white lions who keep pouncing and you just keep running away

3. DoK - a mobile fortress that sprays aspirine around it if healing. Has a pretty functional dps build. The playstyle you might think it would play is very viable with a shield, namely flaying enemies alive (hitting things with your sword) to heal your allies.

Pros:
- Very, very durable, great at healing while being hit
- Top dog aoe healer
- Melee healer build is quite ok
- Not the most gear dependent class if you go healer
- Can go out in pve and solo almost anything, quickly at that
- Pretty good dps build, so also lots of variety
- You will get DoK moments in scenarios/small scale where you're like a raid boss just self-healing yourself while killing things while multiple people focus all their fire on you

Cons:
- While leveling it takes quite a while to be able to heal properly, lots of key skills locked behind levels
- DPS build is fairly gear dependent - it can feel very weak while leveling
- Shield puts a lot of people off due to the class fantasy
Melee dps:
Spoiler:
1. Witch elf - thick thi-I mean potential as a single target damage dealer, big ti - I mean damage, stealth, usually the guy roaming the zone picking afkers off. Has a self-heal build as far as I'm aware (I only remember witch elves from live but I believe that's one of the major meta changes - correction here appreciated if necessary)

Pros:
- Stealth + mobility means you CAN find solo kills if you wish
- Can be built to drop single targets very quickly
- Amazing for low-end PCs - you won't need to alt + tab when certain urges hit you
- Best class for afking for, er, reasons
- Self-heal build I've heard is very fun
- There's a guild currently running a roaming group of multiple witch elves, which looks very fun

Cons:
- Considered a fairly weak in the meta class
- While used in almost all content, not the most desirable
- Can feel a bit one-dimensional at times
- Single target, so you'll feel useless in large-scale fights
- You may suddenly find out girlfriend or wife, should you have one, does not excite you any longer

2. Choppa - superb match of class fantasy and actual playstyle. You rush in, press buttons to chop things, numbers appear and targets die. Almost exclusively used as an aoe melee dps class, where you will press only a few buttons and many numbers will appear (and many things will die).

Pros:
- Quite meta, dominates many of the formats of the game
- Has a pretty funny skill that channels a sort of vortex that pulls random enemies to you - will ruin someone's day, may give you a laugh
- Can be incredibly brainless fun to play
- Quintessential ORK stuff if that's your thing

Cons:
- Can feel one-dimensional
- Very popular class, at times overpopulated
- 2h single target choppa looks very fun and you may want to play it, but it'll be inferior to the dual wield aoe build
- A bit...rigid I suppose is the word, you don't have much variety in what actually happens in a fight you participate in
- Needs practice and attention or you may screw over your entire group

3. Marauder - an incredibly intricate buffer/debuffer melee dps that's generally tougher but generally hits less, with builds that build you as more of a buffer/debuffer, tougher or more damaging. Tough wrecking ball aoe, debuff hybrid melee.

Pros:
- Intricate class with lots of options on how to specc, what to do, how to do it
- Can mix and match speccs despite having "stances" for each specc
- Tougher than usual melee (especially aoe), less of a glass cannon, bit more of a bruiser
- Can do pretty sweet crits
- Lots of fun/flavorful/class fantasy skills like maniacal slicing, execute, wrecking ball, a long-range pull and much more
- Looks awesome, you even get different looks for your mutated arm, lots swear its the coolest with endgame gear but still looks very cool from start to finish

Cons:
- Variety is great but not the strongest focused on a single playstyle
- Can be outshined by choppa in aoe if lacking gear
- Outshined by others in debuffing/single target if lacking gear
- Might have to play a build you don't like for a playstyle you prefer
Ranged dps:
Spoiler:
1. Sorceress - sit in the back, fling shadowy icy stuff, make things go boom, get big numbers

Pros:
- Big numbers
- Can have fun going from aoe to single target speccs
- Can absolutely obliterate things with the highest burst in the game, you actually erase stuff from existence if you can pull it off
- Leveling is chill, you get a lot of tools early on
- Desirable in groups from what I've seen

Cons:
- Bit one-dimensional in staying behind and making numbers appear
- Squishy if focused and you will be focused, one of the favorite destro targets in the game
- You will hear a lot of "BW is sorc but better"

2. Magus (my experience here is the slimmest, I had a 40 magus on live but 0 beyond that) - caster with a very dedicated role, you will either do an aoe pull of enemies to your location, or be kind of ground-target aoe (not familiar at all with this one) or single target damage caster

Pros:
- Awesome for keep/fort defense
- Can be mobile and also has a VERY long range for "sniping"
- Challenging to play

Cons:
- Considered weak in the meta
- Sorc will outdo you in a lot of the things you might want to do
- Choppa will steal your role from you if you do the pull
- You rely on your pet a lot and it will die A LOT

3. Squig Herder - either a long range sneaky ambushing archer or a melee boulder rolling over enemies back and forth

Pros:
- Does the sneaky ambush thing very well, certain players have been doing it in the server for literally thousands of in-game days
- Melee is pretty fun as you have a ton of mobility and survivability
- Leveling has some great times, especially in a scenario premade as a melee you can just flatten enemies
- Very, very mobile

Cons:
- Ranged is sub-par currently (and you might roll a goblin with a bow to, well, shoot things)
- Pet management can get annoying
- Ranged is very, very gear dependent
Any criticism appreciated, will edit in :)

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Seravajan
Posts: 133

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#9 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:39 pm

Nice guide.

Orontes
Posts: 240

Re: Class Pros/Cons/Roles?

Post#10 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:49 pm

Parsifal wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 pm
I'm a brand new player, and I was wondering if there is a list or guide anywhere on the pros/cons/roles of each of the classes in-game. I've tried searching, and couldn't find much other than generic things like "Archmage is bad, use runepriest", or "Ironbreaker is too hard for beginners, play KotBS instead". I haven't found anything that actually talks about pros, cons, and play styles for each of the different class types. With so many different tanks, dps, and healer archetypes, I can't imagine they all play the same!

I started out at a KotBS since it sounds like a generally all-around good tank class, but I am really interested in learning more about the other classes before I get too far in.
Abandon Order. They are pansies.

The real answer to all your questions is: melee squig. It is the top of the evolutionary tree.

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