Lack of balance between destro and order?

[Shadowgurke]

Again, you lost to a single healer that apparently wasn't even there the whole time. Saying that playing with tanks means you need no heal is equally wrong as saying that more tanks = more win. There are so many reason why you lose a scenario, saying that it is because Destros class compostion is worse than Orders because you feel they do requires some mental gymnastics that people call you out on. Both your claims, that Order plays more tank classes than Destro and that full tank is a good tactic are highly subjective claims with no real evidence behind it.

I am not saying that tanks are bad. A guarding tank is as important as decent healers. But 8+ tanks for 2 groups is overkill. Also, comparing DPS numbers is not useful at all. Otherwise 11 sorcs + 1 tank would be the best setup ever

[Bacta]

If you look at his stats it's clear he joined in the end.

And no, healing has nothing to do with anything here. If you dig so up in the numbers take notice that one of the tanks did 44k worth of dmg, that's as much as those sws. Now keep in mind that sw is a lot easier to kill than an ib.

So what you are telling me is that you dont know how the game works at all.

No, I don't, enlighten me, you can shine now.

Tanks are always up front dealing damage i can do 40-60k on my tank depending on the SC. M2 does alot of damage when there are multiple targets. I'm not suprised that one did more than a SW as the SW was probably dying or kiting, ive played with alot of bad SW's in SC's. Sometimes you get a really good one but most the time they are pretty much meat bags. SC's really depend on group make up and they can easily go one way or the other.

[bloodi]

No, I don't, enlighten me, you can shine now.

Damage numbers are pretty much irrelevant, you talk about how a tank that is much harder to kill did as much damagee as a SW, as if that is indication of anything.

Damage dealers are not measured in how much damage they can do, but for how much damage they can do in a determinated amount of time.

You can see on your own screenshots examples of it, the engineer is doing 91k vs the 20k the slayer does, yet soon you will find that groups much rather run slayers than engineers in them and there is good reasons for it.

Damage than is easily outhealed is for thhe most part, worthless, you can see that the engineer has 5 killing blows vs the 4 of the slayer, this is usually what people really want out of the dps, killing blows, you can do 4 times the damage but if that damage is not killing people, is useless, is free renown for the enemy healers.

Thats why people point the healing numbers from one screeneshot to another and ignore the damage ones, if you have no healers its just impossible to win against a decent team that has healers, they will outlast you 9 out of 10 times.

The "metagame" revolves around groups with 2 healers, 2 dps and 2 tanks, thats the "ideal" setup, its not about more tanks, more dps or more hhealers, its just a mix of all of them where each archetype fills a role and tries to counter others.

Really, there is a lot to tell about it but this is already too long, just mind that no pugs sc will be "balanced" and much less when you still have no idea what balance even means in this game.

[vove]

Ok, listen up, this topic was about why there are so many melee/tanks in order and not so many in destr, right now this is seriously getting off the track.

[Ninepaces]

Having a character on both sides I've noticed one thing: in order every career is soooo tanky and they are extremely viable: ironbreaker, slayer, runepriest, kotbs, warrior priest, sword master, white lion. Almost every party on order side is made up exclusively of those. In destro there is basically only the chosen, black orc and choppa, few marauders and even less black guards.

I see that during zerg vs zerg fights even though destro has that imba rdps they lack sturdiness. So why is that order parties are mostly melee (seems 90% of order are doorfs) and on the destro side close to no one playing tanks/melee dps. Are they inferior to their order's counterparts?

I am currently playing healers and dps, but I think we definitely need more melee in destro, so if someone wants to make a destro alt please consider it.

Also, if I would want to reroll some destro melee which one would you recommend? Black orc? What about black guard or marauder?

Maybe order tanks are better overall, but they need it because their MDPS are a bit more squishy. They don't have anything to match the durability of a well supported maurader. Personally, I don't see a lack of melee on destro, however we do have an abundance of poorly played chosen and other 2h tank absurdities.

[TenTonHammer]

You also have to factor in the levels, its unfortunate that the poster didnt post the full scenario report showing all the players in that sc but looking at how the tanks were doing that damage were all in their 20s its not hard to imagine.

In a tier with a wide variety of gear and gear distribution: dom, wicked, conquest, butchers, clamit, shrouded, vaunted, oblit and inf gear these players probably had "high tier" stuff and its not hard to do that level of dmg v 12,13,14's lower geared players



note how my bg and the ib had the most dbs and stuff in the scenario and were also one of the highest leveled

[Ridduk]

They said the same thing about Marauder in T2/3.

As far as Destro/Order mirrors, yes Order has pretty much the better mirror for every class except Marauder/WL but I wouldn't really call it imba.

funny guy

[Compo]

It seems more :
Order: Yeah, we play only healers. Throw more healers on destros.
Destro: Dont know if there is something like healer in game, chop chop chop.

if we (destro) make a Warband in T3 you only get Choppas, Chosens or Sorcs. 2 Healer must try to keep 24 guys alive.

Yesterday i made a Bright Wizard. Damn, i was like a God. A Scenario-Group of 1 BW, 1 SW, 1 Archemage, 2 Runepriests and a Sigmar priest.
i dont know how exactly why, but i think most of Kids play Destro and the serious player play Order.
That was exact the same on Live-Server.

[Minerva]

Ok, listen up, this topic was about why there are so many melee/tanks in order and not so many in destr, right now this is seriously getting off the track.

Ok, I'm gonna play Captain Obvious here:

Since tanks are not a very popular class to main on Order we lack them alot of times in RvR lakes and SC's.
So what happenes is people roll an alt, usually a KoTBS to have for guild premades etc in case that role needs filling.
That's why T1( and I'm guessing T2) usually consits of 90% Khights/WP's (insert random ratio here) and only 10% of other classes.

Don't worry, once you reach T3 you will see that everyone on Order mains a DPS
-Love, Min

[Euan]

They said the same thing about Marauder in T2/3.

As far as Destro/Order mirrors, yes Order has pretty much the better mirror for every class except Marauder/WL but I wouldn't really call it imba.

funny guy

What is funny about my post. People did say in T2/3 Marauder would be OP. There was even a thread called When does Marauder become broken. What mirror aside from Marauder is better on Destro? I'll wait.