Archmage - Not OP though

[Parkus]

Granted that AMs can never deal as much damage as BWs so they will never take a spot in premades and this game is not about 1v1 and blah blah blah, yeah I know.

I only have a doubt: Why is a healer archetype allowed to deal that kind of sustained damage? I guess it all comes from an original design of giving AM the possibility to heal other through damage (ranged equivalent of melee healing). The reality is AMs damage ends up healing mostly themselves, so the purpose isnt achieved. And the upshot is we have a vastly OP class in terms of 1v1. Ok, I know no one should care about 1v1 (although many ppl do but not the ones who run premades and live mentally in t4), but my approach to the game is not centered about 6v6, but about risk vs reward, and I think AMs are unfairly designed right now. And another question. Why does a healer has such an array of tools (AP drain, debuff resist, stats debuff, snare) when other healers can only dream of them and have shitty cc compared to them?

Imo AMs should be buffed healing and survivabilty wise to allow them to be as desirable as WPs or RP as healers of a group and severely nerfed in terms of damage, cos right now there is no justification for that kind of damage without risk.

And no I havent died to any AMs, as I play a SW:)

First roll an AM before you chime in. AM,s dps ONLY becomes viable when you go up the DPS tree and stack Intel. Again DPS Tree... See what I'm doing here? This class by design is supposed to be able to DPS. And don't forget that even though this class is designed to have a DPS tree that is purely reliant on Intel it has no Intel tactic like other dps classes. Let's also remember that when you stack Intel (DPS relies on this) you are sacrificing willpower (Healing relies on this) so you end up with mediocre heals that are all but useless. not doing any REAL healing to speak of. To get any viable damage out of AM you have to sacrifice everything else including survivability so 1v1 depending on who and how might not be so one sided. Again this depends on the situation. Just because someone THINKS they know what they are doing and they get spanked doesn't mean they really know how to play.

[Deadpoet]

Theory can seem to back you up. Reality denies your point. Lets try to find a lot of people who think AM is not onf of the best 1v1 classes on order. Good luck. The sate of AM and shammy when it comes to dps is one of the topics that gets immediately hijacked by realm bias and consequently never properly looked into. Realm comparison and envy is a damn good way to prevent obvious bs from being objectively looked at. But the question remains: I'd very much like to read anyone give me a feasible reason why a HEALER should have the tools to be such a killing machine. But ofc people will prefer to become entangled in realm wars.

[gobbito]

Back in 2008 Zealots had a nice skill. I cant recall the name but it allowed zealots to cast a crow directly above the victim, it was a powerfull armor detaunt. With that and corrosive spit, zealots were able to do well (at least much better than now) in 1v1.

Problem is that devs removed that skill from game. Therefore their damage output was broken cos lest not forget they do mostly corporeal damage.

I agree that Ams in dps spec in tier 2 are beasts. Shammys also.

[Parkus]

Theory can seem to back you up. Reality denies your point. Lets try to find a lot of people who think AM is not onf of the best 1v1 classes on order. Good luck. The sate of AM and shammy when it comes to dps is one of the topics that gets immediately hijacked by realm bias and consequently never properly looked into. Realm comparison and envy is a damn good way to prevent obvious bs from being objectively looked at. But the question remains: I'd very much like to read anyone give me a feasible reason why a HEALER should have the tools to be such a killing machine. But ofc people will prefer to become entangled in realm wars.

Once again when in DPS spec and up the DPS tree you are not necessarily a healer... No more so than the DPS Warior priest who has twice the armor. To say that their single target dps is op is one thing but continually referring to them as a healer with massive dps is misleading. They are as hybrid as the WP by design just without the medium armor, I hate to keep going back to this but they have a DPS tree. Just because they are high elves and look like a fruit loop squishy healer doesn't mean they are only healers or are even designed to be such. I think that people forget that the AM/Shammy are designed as hybrid classes and are meant to have the option to deal DPS.

[Parkus]

I do have to mention, like so many before me that THIS IS NOT A 1v1 game lol. Just think about the complaint here. With all the different classes each with its own different specs (mdps, rdps, medium armor, light armor, heavy armor, corporeal damage, spiritual damage, ect.) there is bound to be some sort of imbalance 1v1 somewhere. I mean to be completely honest the amount of balance there is considering all of these variables is amazing. We continue to get better and tweak things here and there which is awesome but as a whole, when played as its meant to be played as a WAR group vs group this game has done a phenomenal job.

[Satoq]

Theory can seem to back you up. Reality denies your point. Lets try to find a lot of people who think AM is not onf of the best 1v1 classes on order. Good luck. The sate of AM and shammy when it comes to dps is one of the topics that gets immediately hijacked by realm bias and consequently never properly looked into. Realm comparison and envy is a damn good way to prevent obvious bs from being objectively looked at. But the question remains: I'd very much like to read anyone give me a feasible reason why a HEALER should have the tools to be such a killing machine. But ofc people will prefer to become entangled in realm wars.

Spot on.

Risk vs reward is outta wack when it comes to certain classes and we all know which ones need a tweak here and there. Some classes are just to much faceroll at the mo.

[Sizer]

Granted that AMs can never deal as much damage as BWs so they will never take a spot in premades and this game is not about 1v1 and blah blah blah, yeah I know.

I only have a doubt: Why is a healer archetype allowed to deal that kind of sustained damage? I guess it all comes from an original design of giving AM the possibility to heal other through damage (ranged equivalent of melee healing). The reality is AMs damage ends up healing mostly themselves, so the purpose isnt achieved. And the upshot is we have a vastly OP class in terms of 1v1. Ok, I know no one should care about 1v1 (although many ppl do but not the ones who run premades and live mentally in t4), but my approach to the game is not centered about 6v6, but about risk vs reward, and I think AMs are unfairly designed right now. And another question. Why does a healer has such an array of tools (AP drain, debuff resist, stats debuff, snare) when other healers can only dream of them and have shitty cc compared to them?

Imo AMs should be buffed healing and survivabilty wise to allow them to be as desirable as WPs or RP as healers of a group and severely nerfed in terms of damage, cos right now there is no justification for that kind of damage without risk.

And no I havent died to any AMs, as I play a SW:)

First roll an AM before you chime in. AM,s dps ONLY becomes viable when you go up the DPS tree and stack Intel. Again DPS Tree... See what I'm doing here? This class by design is supposed to be able to DPS. And don't forget that even though this class is designed to have a DPS tree that is purely reliant on Intel it has no Intel tactic like other dps classes. Let's also remember that when you stack Intel (DPS relies on this) you are sacrificing willpower (Healing relies on this) so you end up with mediocre heals that are all but useless. not doing any REAL healing to speak of. To get any viable damage out of AM you have to sacrifice everything else including survivability so 1v1 depending on who and how might not be so one sided. Again this depends on the situation. Just because someone THINKS they know what they are doing and they get spanked doesn't mean they really know how to play.

Your point is entirely void based on the fact that he was comparing a dps am to a dps zealot. And spoiler alert, zealots do not get intel tactics, and are by design supposed to be able to dps, and end up with mediocre healing in dps spec, and so on and so forth.

Same reason people have no argument when they defend ID by saying "but slayers are squishy so they need to do a lot of damage!". Yea, no point there either.

[Vayra]

Theory can seem to back you up. Reality denies your point. Lets try to find a lot of people who think AM is not onf of the best 1v1 classes on order. Good luck. The sate of AM and shammy when it comes to dps is one of the topics that gets immediately hijacked by realm bias and consequently never properly looked into. Realm comparison and envy is a damn good way to prevent obvious bs from being objectively looked at. But the question remains: I'd very much like to read anyone give me a feasible reason why a HEALER should have the tools to be such a killing machine. But ofc people will prefer to become entangled in realm wars.

I don't know how many more times this needs to be said, but the game is balanced around 6v6 and UP, no concern has ever been given to 1v1 balance. Yes AMs are super good 1v1, so what? 1v1 fights literally do not matter at all in this game. In an SC you might get the odd 1v1, but then it's your fault for not bringing backup. Any kind of RvR is pointless 1v1 apart from just ganking unsuspecting idiots.

Is DPS AM too strong in 6v6 or warband scale combat? Not in the slightest. So there's no issue. There's nothing to discuss, because 1v1 balance is 100% irrelevant.

[Mendozza]

why this thread isnt locked yet.

[Balleeck]

You can not even compare both chars zealot is healer or bomber to wb, AM is single target DPS first, then healer (even if its good healer too). And do not forget WAR is not 1 vs 1 player game , so stats showed has no worth to compare. Shaman is nothing to compare AM dps and still people plays DPS shamies, but to play DPS zealot is not a good idea. Thats life