SH vs SW difference

[Vdova]

Right now in T3 SW>SH
Reason:
1)All SW skill has much higher based dmg
2)SW stance provide additional stats buff
3)SW can still use range skill in Melee mode , SH can't
4)Pet don't respond well
5)SH lack CC and dmg buff

However in late T4 , it will be different when gear stats increases further cause
1)SW and SH skill dmg scale the same
2)SH dmg get double buff(pet and self) from better equipment.
3)SW stance stats buff remained more or less the same after lvl 40

At current state(T3 and lvl cap 32) SW>SH. In t4 not that much, but still SW>SH.
Someone would ask why anyone play SH than? Some people just dont understand why anybody play a "weaker class" over the stronger one. And here comes the games most important factor. Have a fun!

SH>SW by trillion miles in terms of fun. He is on destro side, Its a gobbo, he is small, has funny emotes, looks cute, wolf mount, short legs, strange item apperance, pets, nice and funny animations.

SW cons: Its an Elf, boring and slow animations, item apperance(wannabe badass),its an elf, big ears, its and elf, smells like elf, looks like elf, taste like elf,boring horse mount, even more boring animations and emotes, etc etc



Enough comparsion

[tomato]

SW > SQ always and forever.

I play both:
SQ as my main, fully geared and potions out the gobo hole.
SW in green crap gear, rr33 or so, no goodies.

My SW outperforms my SQ in all facets of rdps except for annoyance.
SW has better group synergy, more sustained damage, more burst damage, RKD, and better defense (cleanse, install cast armor).
SQ has buggy pets who are only good against solo or pugs, speed proc and ability which is nice, BadGas in a wretched line.

he speaks truth.

Couldn't be further from the turth. Amazing how you play both classes and still write so much nonsense.

Group synergy? Giving to edge to sw here, thanks to rkd and ls. Although sh has a good off gcd disarm and profits thanks to his pet way more from covenants and sorc buffs.

Sustained dmg and burst:
Really nice how you generalize (pro tip, it's not), but in reallity it depends on your target. Sh has a lot more sustained dmg and burst against low armor targets. Because stacking ws on sh is less useful than on sw, sw has the advantage against high armor targets. So against most high priority targets sh will have more dmg.
(yes if you're playing without decent healers your pet may die to aoe, but I'm comparing them in solid premades)

Better defense? sw has more or less only armor stance going for him and a meele disarm (leaving out the tools both of them have), while sh has run away, off gcd disarm and ranged charge+taunt. Later on sh will also get a knockback.
In conclusion, sh has better defense.

@OP: Pet dmg isn't counted in sc statistics, so obv. sh will have lower dmg statistics.

[mursie]

Couldn't be further from the turth.

Group synergy? Giving to edge to sw here, thanks to rkd and ls. Although sh has a good off gcd disarm and profits thanks to his pet way more from covenants and sorc buffs.

Saying stinky is far from truth and yet also saying SW is better for group synergy in the same breath sounds totally contradictory, especially from someone who preaches group play above all else. One could stop reading your response after that point alone.

But, even with that said, have you played both classes? Your generalizations about SH abilities always makes them sound way more appealing than they actually are. And again - please don't forget about the 30 second vengeance CD vs 3 minute squig frenzy. You should definitely give those a look.

The run-away gobbo tactic usually won't be used in t4 if one wants to remain viable compared to SW in group play (yes it can be a great solo build tool but we don't believe in solo play right?). you'll have way more important BS tactics you'll need. so scratch that.

The run-away ability on a 30 second cooldown. I guess that makes up for vengeance? SW gets 20% more dmg for 15 seconds every 30 seconds and you get to run away with a charge. seems about even.

The disarm on the squig is not reliable. pls - play the class and you will see. but yes - when disarm does go off on demand as intended... it's a great thing. Still - i'd rather just have a 1second cast RKD which not only grants me effectively the same thing but also gives me some kite distance since the target is knocked down.

finally - I don't really want to get in a flame war with you. So if you disagree with the above, fine. Stinky and Thorindor have played those classes for 6+ years as their mains. I believe their points. If you have that kind of resume to bring to the table with respect to those classes it would definitely help give more weight to your argument but so far I've only seen you basically conclude that, in your opinion on classes you don't main, SH has more defense in t4 due to an extra knockback and maybe some extra sustained on clothies which is speculative at best.

[peppex91]

its an elf, big ears, its and elf, smells like elf, looks like elf, taste like elf,boring horse mount, even more boring animations and emotes, etc etc

Lol u surely like elves^^

[tomato]

Couldn't be further from the turth.

Group synergy? Giving to edge to sw here, thanks to rkd and ls. Although sh has a good off gcd disarm and profits thanks to his pet way more from covenants and sorc buffs.

Saying stinky is far from truth and yet also saying SW is better for group synergy in the same breath sounds totally contradictory, especially from someone who preaches group play above all else. One could stop reading your response after that point alone.

But, even with that said, have you played both classes? Your generalizations about SH abilities always makes them sound way more appealing than they actually are. And again - please don't forget about the 30 second vengeance CD vs 3 minute squig frenzy. You should definitely give those a look.

The run-away gobbo tactic usually won't be used in t4 if one wants to remain viable compared to SW in group play (yes it can be a great solo build tool but we don't believe in solo play right?). you'll have way more important BS tactics you'll need. so scratch that.

The run-away ability on a 30 second cooldown. I guess that makes up for vengeance? SW gets 20% more dmg for 15 seconds every 30 seconds and you get to run away with a charge. seems about even.

The disarm on the squig is not reliable. pls - play the class and you will see. but yes - when disarm does go off on demand as intended... it's a great thing. Still - i'd rather just have a 1second cast RKD which not only grants me effectively the same thing but also gives me some kite distance since the target is knocked down.

finally - I don't really want to get in a flame war with you. So if you disagree with the above, fine. Stinky and Thorindor have played those classes for 6+ years as their mains. I believe their points. If you have that kind of resume to bring to the table with respect to those classes it would definitely help give more weight to your argument but so far I've only seen you basically conclude that, in your opinion on classes you don't main, SH has more defense in t4 due to an extra knockback and maybe some extra sustained on clothies which is speculative at best.

Stinky wrote sw has more burst and sustained dmg, this couldn't be further from the truth.
His post is mostly one sided to let the sw appear way better than it is compared to sh. Leaving out really important points. I looked at everything and compared it without bias.

You ignored almost all my points, as usual and your only real argument is stinky has mained that class? Ye he has, but he's still spilling bullshit. Most of his posts are just sw is op, buff sh...

You can include VoN and SF into the dmg discussion, won't change what I wrote earlier. (on priority targets, sh dmg>sw)

Playing t4 without runaway? Ye I see, sounds like a great idea. (Impressive knowlegde about groupplay right here.)

Sh having the better defence isn't debatable, sorry. Armorbuff and shitty disarm isn't comparable to run away, ranged charge+taunt, off gcd disarm and aoe knockback.

Edit: Just go and test the dmg on a cloth armor target. Burst and sustain.

[Foxbeep]

I also want to point out just how important it is that SH has access to all abilities with all squigs
SW has to swap to use takedown which is a very important ability to have access to since the SW has fewer kiting tools than the SH anyways.

SH will always be the true master kiter, SW will always be the most opportunity-based single target damage of the two.

I still think SH is a very very strong class, but so is the SW.
I don't think either need major adjustments to anything but their "melee" trees.

[Kast74]

SW's ranged knock is really a nuisance.
imho (i've played both sides), SW more dangerous because of ranged knock.

[normanis]

if u attack as melle tank/dps sqiog herder can eat u alive with speed tactic detount tactic + pet deal most damge. u cant even catch him.
if u attack as choppa or mara witch elf to sw , well its 50/50 u can kill sw.
byt player make that class good or bed and gear offc.
sw vs squig well i dont whant meet realy good shadow warriors like pizza rest i just hide and my pet doo all job.
so i say + to squig all important abilities in 1 bar and u have pet

[mursie]

Stinky wrote sw has more burst and sustained dmg, this couldn't be further from the truth.
His post is mostly one sided to let the sw appear way better than it is compared to sh. Leaving out really important points. I looked at everything and compared it without bias.

This is your opinion, counter to his. He brings forth knowledge from actually playing both classes. You bring forth conjecture that is no better or worse than his supposed generalizations. At least his generalizations are based on actually playing both classes in their current state.

You ignored almost all my points, as usual and your only real argument is stinky has mained that class? Ye he has, but he's still spilling bullshit. Most of his posts are just sw is op, buff sh...

It is interesting - if he gives an opinion based on his actual knowledge and play of both classes its "spewing bullshit" but if you give your opinion it is apparently "truth". Why do you think the community would not look at your own comments, made without playing both classes, and not consider it "spewed bullshit"? In addition, he did not ask for any buff to squig - merely just gave evidence of his own gameplay on both classes.

You can include VoN and SF into the dmg discussion, won't change what I wrote earlier. (on priority targets, sh dmg>sw)

I think this changes the discussion of whether his points are "far from the truth" a great deal. This discusses one of your two concerns from his post - i.e. burst. Having this ability would definitely give better burst to the SW. Consider his points:
1. buggy pets that are easily killed, sometimes do not even attack your target even when manually commanded, and easily in group play do not give you 100% uptime full dmg.
2. Base higher dmg in SW abilities that are not dependent on pet and are 100% uptime
3. VoN which further increases burst.

Playing t4 without runaway? Ye I see, sounds like a great idea. (Impressive knowlegde about groupplay right here.)

If you play t4 with runaway tactic slotted in group play then I can understand why you feel the SQ has less group synergy than the SW - as doing this tactic would definitely further hinder any chance for the SQ to bring the same dmg to a T4 fight as a SW. Considering Shoot with the Wind and Pick on your own size are basically mandatory (increasing your dot range and increasing bal/ws) and then adding the BS tactics to actually make your burst on par with a SW - and I haven't even brought masterful aim in yet... using run-away tactic is nice to have tactic that unfortunately has no room on the bar unless running a solo build orvr roaming spec.

Sh having the better defence isn't debatable, sorry. Armorbuff and shitty disarm isn't comparable to run away, ranged charge+taunt, off gcd disarm and aoe knockback.

I said you made this one point. Although - i do think it is debatable. a shitty disarm on SW plus an RKD vs an unreliable disarm on pet squig and a knockback is a push for me (and actually - i'd rather have the RKD). ranged charge + taunt... that taunt still requires the target to be in 30ft but since your pet is likely the spiked squig or gas pet...and since that is range ... you really don't get that taunt effect alot of the time on the target you want. Sure a master micro'er could farty squig explode his spike pet...insta cast his horn pet... run it in... runaway ability for charge+taunt...then eatlikechicken his horned pet...to auto summon a gas pet... and then run like hell.. but man - that took forever to type - just imagine the ingame micro. Trying to on-demand kite a wh/wl and do all of that is alot easier said than done. and now unfortunately - your spike pet which gives you on the move auto-attack and 5% crit is now on cooldown for 30seconds.

But at the end of the day - you have an opinion. And that is fine. I'll agree to disagree with you. But just because your opinion is different from stinky's doesn't mean his is bullshit and yours is truth.

[Razid1987]

I've read some posts in this thread a few times. I still don't get why you compare SW and SH. I'm aware they are both RDPS, but they are not mirrored. It's kinda like comparing a Sorc with an Engineer. It's weird and nonsensical.