[Suggestion] Making guard less OP

[noisestorm]

Only thing i want to add here though, which i personally would be interrested in just seeing tested out: Block being removed from the Tanks Guard mitigation. Let it solely be defendable by parry.

Dont forget tank abilities that need a block. Like BG kd or dirty tricks, not to mention those that need either block or parry. This would nerf all of them.

I am fully aware of that.

Edit: just to name 2 tactics: Dirty tricks and Destined for Victory can be actually considered as permanent buffs thanks to guard. I dont really see a reason for them being so cheap to be used.

[peterthepan3]

How come people managed in live to deal with guarded opponents (heal debuffs, staggering enemy healers or CCing them and then applying lots of pressure on target, punts, mara debuffs which effectively make any target easy prey) yet only now do some people seem to have an issue with it?
I like the parry suggestion tbh (would also give 2h tanks some love), but ultimately I don't think guard is that big an issue and can be dealt with.

[Vaul]

...
Also making it to parry only would make magic casters the stronger ones (And aoe spam BW's + Sorcs that a melee needs guard for quite often) and shaft melee damage dealers. Correct me if I am wrong here, but you cannot parry magic damage through guard right?

Any damage taken by the Guardee is redirected as melee dmg to the Guard - so it can be blocked or parried (but not dodged or disrupted), Additionally it is blocked/parried at the tank's "base" rate and not reduced by the attacker's damage stat like normal dmg is, which is why later on a lot of it can be reduced.

[Bozzax]

weakening guard will make zerg even easier why are we having this discussion?

[Shadowgurke]

Not particularly. Parry doesn't work on spells or ranged attacks, mages and archers could still disintegrate a tank without a shield. Just means you can't stack tons of block and parry to effectively negate all guard damage, melee damage, while also countering ranged and magic damage.

I am not saying squishy 2H tank. With no renown in block, base block sits at around 6%. Renown into disrupt instead of block would result in more defense than block with a smaller amount of renown invested.

Any damage taken by the Guardee is redirected as melee dmg to the Guard - so it can be blocked or parried (but not dodged or disrupted), Additionally it is blocked/parried at the tank's "base" rate and not reduced by the attacker's damage stat like normal dmg is, which is why later on a lot of it can be reduced.

Assuming this is correct, I'd rather have this changed

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

I am fully aware of that.

Edit: just to name 2 tactics: Dirty tricks and Destined for Victory can be actually considered as permanent buffs thanks to guard. I dont really see a reason for them being so cheap to be used.

Since kobs has a core block buff, why not fix dirty tricks by making it require a parry and shield.
Wouldnt nerf BG kd the same time.

[dirnsterer]

How come people managed in live to deal with guarded opponents (heal debuffs, staggering enemy healers or CCing them and then applying lots of pressure on target, punts, mara debuffs which effectively make any target easy prey) yet only now do some people seem to have an issue with it?
I like the parry suggestion tbh (would also give 2h tanks some love), but ultimately I don't think guard is that big an issue and can be dealt with.

There was actually one 6vs6 I recall that ended in stalemate. Order group brough 2 Brighties into their setup so they got murdered nonstop because un-nerfed tyrant healers ressing them in one nanosecond after death. But I blame that on the old Tyrant gear.

Also cheers on giving some light on parry guard stuff.

[Azarael]

I did just read parts of it all, but i see a lot of wrong information being posted indeed..

Only thing i want to add here though, which i personally would be interrested in just seeing tested out: Block being removed from the Tanks Guard mitigation. Let it solely be defendable by parry.
Sadly later on in t4 when tanks are stacked with their parry/block up to 70/40 % the whole argument of "but if the dps takes 4k dmg the tank explodes too!" is just ridiculous and not really correct anymore.

Having skills that actively remove guard doesnt sound like a good solution tbh, because that somewhat is 'integrated' in a proper punt.

And regarding detaunt and guard just to tell in advance: If you use a detaunt while being guarded, then your guard will not trigger from the detaunted enemies. Basically saying, you still only receive 50% dmg, but your tank wont soak anything up until the detaunt wears off.

Also making it to parry only would make magic casters the stronger ones (And aoe spam BW's + Sorcs that a melee needs guard for quite often) and shaft melee damage dealers. Correct me if I am wrong here, but you cannot parry magic damage through guard right? And what comes to the other people saying about there is no counter play to this at all, explain to me how premades can prevail over other premades then, if this guard is such a godly ability. Should it not be a stalemate? Let me add one more counterplay to damage migitation, morale damage. (Which I mentioned bit earlier)

Not only does Guard treat every attack that comes through it as able to be blocked and parried (regardless of your orientation or the attack's typing), but you receive your maximum possible defense against it; to put it another way, Guard is an attack against your frontal cone from an enemy with strength zero and no strikethrough stats.

If you want to look at Guard, the first thing I would suggest is removing this exemption and treating damage from Guard as being from the person who cast it - strikethrough, offensive stat and all - for the purpose of determining the defense check. Guard should not be allowed to scale in one direction only, as it currently does.

[Soulcheg]

Oh nice. You just actually said "ok, i agree, let's nerf guard".

Go, kill the half-rotten corpse of WHO again. Make it session game, like LoL or DotA. Sorry.

[Azarael]

Oh nice. You just actually said "ok, i agree, let's nerf guard".

Go, kill the half-rotten corpse of WHO again. Make it session game, like LoL or DotA. Sorry.

If you have nothing constructive to post, go away.