DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[Sulorie]

No, AM/Sham have better res management at back line than the other healers.

[Penril]

There seems to be a ton of "rationalization" and drinking of kool-aid when it comes to the "fine-ness" of healers.

If WP/Dok are fine and Cloth healer are fine then we wouldn't have the disparity that we have. If cloth healers are trickier then they should have vastly better rewards for playing them well...not 150% for mediocrity. There is ample proof behind the fact that WP/Dok is the superior choice in every "relevant" arena of RoR.

Only one of the statements can be true:
-WP/Doks are where healers should be in power. Other classes need to be brought inline strength wise.

-Cloth healers are where healers should be power wise. Wp/Dok need to be adjusted.

We need to determine which of these statements is true before we can continue. I personally believe that it's former.

Agreed 100%. This is what we need to figure out (not if Doks are performing better than Sham/Zeal in most situations; that is pretty much agreed by most players, good or bad).

I think Cloth healers are where healers should be power wise. Wp/Dok need to be adjusted.

[roadkillrobin]

I think there's alot more factors then just armor vallues that makes DoK/WP just straight up better. Imo i think they need their armor vallues as they are. But what i think that needs to be looked at are Regen and Cast times.

For example making Smite/Essence Lash hit 3 targets max and llimit the range to 30 feet.
I also think that Khains Invigoritaion and Khaine's Embrace should have an aditional 0.5 sec cast times on them. (and WP mirror abillties ofc) These 2 heals are OP as hell.

[ThePollie]

For example making Smite/Essence Lash hit 3 targets max and llimit the range to 30 feet..

Which cuts into Grace/Wrath's ability to get RF in a hurry, and further cripples Wrath's already piss-poor damage.

[noisestorm]

For example making Smite/Essence Lash hit 3 targets max and llimit the range to 30 feet..

Which cuts into Grace/Wrath's ability to get RF in a hurry, and further cripples Wrath's already piss-poor damage.

You can limit that to having a book/chalice or not as well : >

[ThePollie]

For example making Smite/Essence Lash hit 3 targets max and llimit the range to 30 feet..

Which cuts into Grace/Wrath's ability to get RF in a hurry, and further cripples Wrath's already piss-poor damage.

You can limit that to having a book/chalice or not as well : >

Again, important enough a distinction to mention it.

I agree that Salvation is hellishly powerful for how little skill it takes to play, but I don't want people smashing Grace and Wrath further into the dirt because of some frothing fit to get the other healers in line with them.

[Penril]

At this point i think it is safe to say that any change on Salvation will apply as long as you have a book/chalice equipped.

[Bacta]

DoK's and WP's are fine, I don't remember this much complaining on live...The difference between these 2 healers compared to the rest is that they are meant to be front line healers that stay close to the tanks and MDPS. While the other healers stick back to the RDPS and are able to heal and kite from danger.

As penril said, they can do better then the 4 other healers while standing at the back, that for me is the problem, i dont want to see them nerf so every dok/wp healer is pissed i wana see them fulfil the role they were meant to be, frontline healers not backline healers with better resource management then the other 4 healers.

Im not sure complaining is the right word to use although i could see why, the fact that any imput the community had on live feel on deaf ears anyway meant ppl were more inclined to just get on with it, here devs are open with the community and seem to have a better insight into the game then any of the old devs(atleast since i started playing the game) so with the players input we will hopefully see improvements.
Not every suggestion for balance/nerf/buff to any class is a good idea but with everyone giving suggestions i believe the game will be in a better state and in the case of wp/dok im sure this will be the case.

I disagree with this comment, a DoK will run out of soul essence quickly and would have to spend 5 seconds channeling it back. Alot can happen in 5 seconds. For a DoK to out heal all other classes they need to be mid-range if not close range to use essence lash effectively. The chalice itself is not enough regen itself.

[Sulorie]

I disagree with this comment, a DoK will run out of soul essence quickly and would have to spend 5 seconds channeling it back. Alot can happen in 5 seconds. For a DoK to out heal all other classes they need to be mid-range if not close range to use essence lash effectively. The chalice itself is not enough regen itself.

Correct, this is what people seem to ignore.
The problem I see is the cooldown of the RF/SE regen. You have it ready almost all the time, which allows you to spam healing with minor breaks.
Increase cooldown and they really need close range for regen.

[Vigfuss]

I think it's good to keep in mind that DoK/WP are by far the best group healer because of it's fast cast, and as a general thing it's not really a problem to have it defined by it's strength as a group healer. In general, a group healer is very good for PVP. ST healers just don't perform as well in pvp, but they have their own niche, and are still worth having in the right set up. One group healer can still carry, but one ST healer alone is never even close to enough.

I'm not saying it's balanced but I think every group will always want to have a group healer, and that's part of the reason why they're needed.

BTW is there still a plan in place to use the balance changes forum?