Forum Order consensus vs reality. Why is that?

[freshour]

This is strictly a topic about the general population. I have 5 friends who have knights. Only one LOVES him and goes full tank. 1 likes him and goes two hander. The rest have them when we need to farm something but think it is waaaay too boring. So I like to test out things before I talk/type/rant. I sampled SC's T1/2/3 the last 4 days from 7am eastern to 10 am eastern and from 10pm to 12am. Yes I have had some free time.

On average order has 1-2 melee at all times unless I form a guild SC premade in which we can usually talk someone into playing a 2nd tank. But if you ever solo Q you will get 1-2 melee, sever DPS AM's, a lot of BW's and then randomly like 5 WH's in your group.

I thought this was a little odd so I asked some destro guys to tell me in T1-3... on avg 5-6 melee. Choppas, BO, BG, Marauders, Chosen, the works! In nearly every single Solo q like clockwork. So I have been trying to figure out why and the general consensus is order tanks/melee really aren't that fun to play as most people have said. So if you read the forums then order has the most OP melee in the game.

Forum consensus of order Melee

1. Slayers are the most OP melee in the game, wrecking casters and pouring out more damage than anyone to ever set foot on the battlefield. Destro fears them as if they are angels of death brought down to ruin their lives.

2. Ironbreakers are the best tank in the game and have the most CC and party utility you could ever ask for. Their oathfriend is the best and no one will ever tell them differently. If you have an IB it's GG for Destro!!!!

3. WP aren't really melee, even Grace don't do very well. But they have this end all move known as AOE detaunt. If destro see AOE detaunt, they get up, walk away and go get their meal for the day as it might as well not even be a game. If you read the forums AOE detaunt shoots lightning from the heavens to strike down everyone instantly while fully healing your team and providing endless AP to people even in other SC's that aren't even your own. Some would say it similar to the scene from Matrix 1 when Neo realizes he is the one combined with Goku going SS and having a power level of 9000... But few live to tell about the story.

4. Knights are so broken. They are so easy. Their auras are second to none. Their ability to pick up a two hander and kill every single person that sets foot in front of them makes the party favorite and a must for every group. The only thing they need for dinner is a nerf because as far as the forums are concerned they break the game and everyone involved in it.

5. God, I mean White Lions are in every single party. Some games it is 12 of them even and you might as well roast some mellers because it is a wrap. They hit people for full HP with one strike of their halberd/axe looking thing and if that doesn't do it their tiger can hit for 10k! 10!!!! Their tactics are so brokenly OP and every single order player has one and they decimate the battlefield. In fact no order class should ever get a buff simply because White Lion is an option for them to play and they are all idiots for not doing this in the first place.

In game consensus of melee order

1. Slayers die in one second unless guarded and generally will not even think about logging in unless they have two bis healers and a guard, who MUST be a knight. They throw up huge chunks of damage and light up the scoreboard but in reality don't really kill anyone. The good ones make it to the back line and can cause some serious QQ, but 90% or more don't know what to do with them, how their mechanics work and usually just log a WP or BW to add to the lack of melee on order side unless you beg one to play. Oh.. but they are good for farming new guys up.

2. Ironbreakers - I know a GM plays one. And I have seen a few KO players have one.... Yup... go iron breakers.

3. WP - I play it b/c we needed a healer and I hear they don't die very often. Hmm I guess I'll do armor talis b/c everyone else does, I'm not sure why but I think I hit aoe cleanse, and spam my aoe heals and smite, I did a lot of heals that game so I should be considered a pretty good one. Oh, you see that DPS WP, yeah we lost, that guy blows a$$.

4. Knight - Oh dude hmmm do I do dirty tricks... nah I want reflect... no I should do resists, str and toughness yeah that'll work great. Oh and I'll just never swap auras b/c I don't need to. Crap phone call, you care if i just afk at mid with guard on, I should be okay right? Oh wow!!!! I am gonna get a 2h and crush people... man T1-2 was awesome i hit people for 500!!!!! Oh... T3 I hit like a 85 year old penis w/out viagra. Damn... Well... I guess I can go SnB and jus grab him when we do RvR... I hear they hold the door really well.

5. White Lions - Ohhhh yeah, i think I saw one when I was making an alt killing a marauder. I added him on my friends list since did that first PQ together. Never saw him since. Are they even allowed to Q for SC's? Oh check it out he just jumped that keep wall, oh nm... he can't do that anymore. Maybe they removed them from the game? Nah I heard they are so good that no one plays them just to be fair.

- I would talk about SM's, but lets be real. They do moderate damage, huge skill cap, and aren't worth a damn until R40, so nahhhhhhh. Oh but you saw a SnB SM? Bet he was awesome!!!!!

The moral of all of this is. If you just read the forums, order should never lose an SC EVER, and should have their T2 fight T3's just to make it an even fight. But the reality is most order melee aren't very entertaining to play. Some have a bit higher skill caps, others are so much utility that unless you work for a non profit/peacecore type org. you aren't going to have any fun. They aren't big giant screaming orcs, they do have CC, but for most it is later in the trees and after a few BG punts into lava, they swap to a mage/bw/range b/c they are sick of it. Personally I thought it was fun on my IB getting to T3, but that is b/c I used to like playing tanks until I tried Chosen out and realized how easy/fun it is compared to a knight. Spewing AOE damage, not blockable, 25% less damage, just straight easy and fun to play. Marauders and Choppas, super low skill caps, bash things in, usually always have sorcs as they hit 3 buttons and watch the world burn.. err freeze. Shamans are uncatchable with bunny hop fix not doing a daaaaaaamn thing. Sure AM's are unreal 1v1, but lets face it, If you get in a Q without a shaman throwin Nick Gooo on the ground while you get roasted by Sorcs and Magi... well you are a small minority.

If you disagree that is great. You probably play destro, used to play destro or have a lotta friends that play destro. Or you simply don't solo q or play with smaller groups very often. And that is fine, but I assure you that you are oh so wrong. Time and time again I hear "Why do we have no tanks? Where is our melee?" And I think it stems back to them A. not being as fun/low skill cap. And B they get sick of being the only one and eventually just roll and a caster.

Fine Print

- Sarcasm aside I think an organized order group beats an organized destro group 9/10x just b/c their classes sync together very well. Its less beat your chest rage with aoe's and stacking wounds debuffs. Less group pull specs as no engis like to do that (I have met 2). But all the buffs together from knight's am's wp, supported by Slayers and BW's and lets even pretend someone is on a WL. It's a very very good harmony. While destro has this a bit, their synergy just isn't as good I don't think. If they are great players then sure... But ask any Sorc, they will say BW's are generaly better, sure they do less damage, but anytime you add more than 3 buttons, you a lot more viable for different situations. You don't have the DoK melee threat in a WP so most are salvation healers that generally can't get 5-10% more than a DoK healer. So sure.. I get that too.

In closing

Has it always been this way? Or was it a different story on live as obviously a lot of the order hate comes from salty people who were destroyed by order and have brought that to this realm that we all love? I really don't know the answer to that but I wish more people would understand this reality and stop living in the past. Live is dead. This is not live. It is completely different. I'm fairly new and I can tell that. Stop shutting down dev ideas to even the fun/playing field on order melee and if you guys end up getting melee trained like order does now, then I'm sure the devs would be willing to do some more tweaks. Again, this is from the small group/solo perspective as the majority of this server is a part of that with less than half being in a big guild with organized groups in every SC. Especially when it comes to NA when destro has much more groups going at that time.

Thanks,

Dawm.

Sorry for typos, its late but I needed to get this off my chest.

[Scrilian]

Good read, mate.
#orderbias
#prayfordestro

[Gachimuchi]

Might I asked what thread/post prompted this?

Anyway the whole 'Order/destro has no melee players' pendulum swings back and forth. Some scenarios I'll be the only melee among 6 sorcs and 2 shamans or Order has 5 shadow warriors and a few archmages/runepriests/bws.

[MrESkull]

Might I asked what thread/post prompted this?

Anyway the whole 'Order/destro has no melee players' pendulum swings back and forth. Some scenarios I'll be the only melee among 6 sorcs and 2 shamans or Order has 5 shadow warriors and a few archmages/runepriests/bws.

Pretty much, yeah.

And if you do happen to be one of the two melee on your team then you're probably not going to be too confident charging in, since melee draw a lot of attention and one melee draws it all.

That said I do have to agree that I really don't see a lot of Order tanks in SCs, don't get me wrong they do exist and I see them often enough, but it's usually one or two KotBS and that's it. Rarely see an IB or SM.

As for Destro tanks. I mostly see BGs, sometimes BOs, and rarely a Chosen. No idea why, personally I love Destro tanks that aren't BGs. Not from a gameplay perspective mind you, but from a visual one, BOs and Chosen are just awesome.

On the other hand. I like the visual style of KotBS, and so it seems does everyone else, but I also love IBs which no one else seems to care about.

Think I'm going to level my IB tonight.

[Razid1987]

People exaggerating all the time, and yes, it's pretty ridiculous.

But why? I think it might be linked to people's high egos. People have so high opinions about their own skillz, that whenever they actually are beaten in combat, it's never because that they played bad, or the other guy played good. No, it's because "X class is so OP, I couldn't do anything as this class, QQ".

It's always the same. There's no respect for other players, and especially not the ones from the opposite faction.

[Sulorie]

As for Destro tanks. I mostly see BGs, sometimes BOs, and rarely a Chosen. No idea why, personally I love Destro tanks that aren't BGs. Not from a gameplay perspective mind you, but from a visual one, BOs and Chosen are just awesome.

You my friend, should really visit the unofficial "BG is the worst tank" thread and tell everyone how many BG you see.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 73&t=11928

[Sizer]

You do realize that when people yell "OMGZ ORDER OP NERF DEM NO FAIR DEVS PLAY ORDER...." theyre being sarcastic, right? Never mind, with a post this long its obvious you dont.

Either way, just because order cant win 100% of fights with 1 button, that doesnt mean classes are perfectly balanced, and that slayers or wps (or doks or maras) will not get nerfs in the future.

[ursvamp]

you see many gankers in destro huh? comparing to ranged knockdowns, AM's imortality, endless pounces. poor healers, SH's.
and here you can use your slow and knockback and, nothing happens.. in the end you die, to 700 crit pounces.. so good.
here you only need 6 man with tanks and healers do deal with that, wow so equilibrated

[bwdaWAR]

You do realize that when people yell "OMGZ ORDER OP NERF DEM NO FAIR DEVS PLAY ORDER...." theyre being sarcastic, right?

No, they quite often mean it. Since it's part of a lengthy rant.

[Scrilian]

You do realize that when people yell "OMGZ ORDER OP NERF DEM NO FAIR DEVS PLAY ORDER...." theyre being sarcastic, right? Never mind, with a post this long its obvious you dont.

You do realize that before Balance Forums were implemented, there were daily 40+ pages of the usual nerf order whine?
My guess that people are just love being "sarcastic" that way or when they literally pm you death threats, call you a cheater and abuser when you RKD or pounce on them