Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[th3gatekeeper]

Until such time that a good balance for 10% Parry is reached I think my suggestions is the most fair i.e Remove seconday effects.

There are bonuses and downsides for 2h vs 2xWep but ultimately alot of these Proc vs Spike is relatively balanced, thanks to this thread these are well known now. My Suggestion will mitigate classes that are bound to one weapon option, and classes that have options for both have incentives to take those options in their classes.

Probably the "safest" option and in fact, if you think about it, DW having less parry is "somewhat" the same as 2Hers having parry passthrough... I know for 2H tanks who hit MDPS itll be a noticeable difference...

[freshour]

100% also like this. I mean T4 is on its way so why not give it a shot until T4 just to see the difference? I know it'll be awesome to not have to think that my 2h has 10% block strikethrough anymore. And hey, it is one less thing for WP's to say DoK have over them, and if it gives melee a few more options then that is awesome. Also doesn't buff the amazing WL's that are all over the place , I'm sure they will all be very disappointed but as soon as you find them at the end of the rainbow... wait... wrong person... oh well they are very similar occurrences, we can let them know.

So the only people who can oppose this are probably people who love their 10% parry so much and don't care that 2h users have been getting the shaft. Any devs wanna chime in on this?

[CiPhErEnIgMa]

I just did some testing and my findings suggest equipping a twohander (great hammer in this case) grants around a -10% to -12% chance to be parried. Summary of my testing:

Attacker: Warrior Priest bolstered to lvl 15, strength = 97, no items worn that grant -% chance to be parried

Defender: Chosen, sword and board, bolstered to lvl 15, weapon skill = 165

Using combat logger and importing log files to excel:

1227 auto attacks recorded with WP using one handed weapon: 261 blocks (21.3%), 119 parries (12.3%) (i'm assuming blocks are calculated first, then parry check performed thus: parries/(total_hits-blocks) = 12.3%)

This parry rate is consistent with the expected ~ 12.54% parry chance from performing calculations based on the new combat mechanics employed on patch 10/13/17.

1287 auto attacks recorded with WP using two handed weapon: 114 blocks (8.9%), 20 parries (1.7%).

The change in block % is consistent with the expected -10% chance to block attacks from a two handed weapon. However, out of days of searching I can't see any documentation in these forums which suggest equipping a two hander grants any sort of -% chance to be parried. Am I missing something?

What is also weird is that after performing the calcs for a -10% chance to be parried (assuming this is in fact granted while wielding a two hander) I would expect around a 3.28% chance to parry but I am recording 1.7%.

[sullemunk]

or you can just do a .getstats and see that 2-hander is still set to block strikethrou...

[BrockRiefenstahl]

or you can just do a .getstats and see that 2-hander is still set to block strikethrou...

Why didnt this change went live? I really wish it would be parry strikethrough. As 2h SM getting parried by a non parry stacking Shaman seems odd

Please Devs, can you revisit this old proposal by Azarael?

[Coma]

or you can just do a .getstats and see that 2-hander is still set to block strikethrou...

the problem is that HIS TEST make it look like it actualy is BOTH block and parry striketrough... so despite what the get stat say he is actualy experiencing a 10% PARRY striketrough by simply equipping a 2hander... that is NOT SUPPOSED to happen ^^'

so... is this a bug or stealth change that was not reported in patch notes?

[Bejkon]

I just did some testing and my findings suggest equipping a twohander (great hammer in this case) grants around a -10% to -12% chance to be parried. Summary of my testing:

...

The change in block % is consistent with the expected -10% chance to block attacks from a two handed weapon. However, out of days of searching I can't see any documentation in these forums which suggest equipping a two hander grants any sort of -% chance to be parried. Am I missing something?

...

Aite,

I dont post much, but I read alot of what gets posted, and since no one else has taken the time to help you with your mystery, I'll give it a shot.

So 3min of search gave me this: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=21353

Now, the question to ask is:

so... is this a bug or stealth change that was not reported in patch notes?

I agree its hard to tell, but i think a hint about these stealthy and unreported changes might lie in this section of the linked patchnotes:

[Class Changes]

...

Careers - Warrior Priest

- 2h Hammers now carry additional parry strikethrough for WP only

...

But then again, who could really be sure.

/s

TL;DR: Your test produced the expected results as long as you are expecting the intended results.

Now, do this test with any other class holding the 2H and get the same results. Afaik, you shouldnt.

<3
/Bejk

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

I think it's clear that 2h is still drastically underperforming for all classes that are capable of doing so, besides sword master. Slayer, choppa, BO and chosen are all looking at less effective builds when 2h at this point, as is evident in the prevalence of strict builds being run. How often do we see a SM with a shield, or a choppa with a 2h?

[Arteker616]

I think it's clear that 2h is still drastically underperforming for all classes that are capable of doing so, besides sword master. Slayer, choppa, BO and chosen are all looking at less effective builds when 2h at this point, as is evident in the prevalence of strict builds being run. How often do we see a SM with a shield, or a choppa with a 2h?

slayer 2hander works just fine , its only overshadowed by skavenslayer and the fact u need power T in a grp to realy use it at his full potential , not pug friendly but does indeed ST realy hard .
plenty of choppas runs 2hander but its more for the look than otherwise as it doesnt have sinergy slayer do thanks rampage and spameable spellbreaker,

Bg and swordmaster do work better as 2hander tanks , both can play as sb without much ease either.
Chosen ktbo 2hander synergy is prety well balanced ,

Wp lacks the sustained dmg of the dok but he can burst soft unprotected targets realy hard if left uncheked . and he has a parry build to make it for the non dualwield .

the big loser at this momment on ror going 2hander is the black orc, not just because he doesnt have real defensive parry abilitys but because his tactics are inclined to the use of a shield , wasnt always the case though , but without his old disarm , anti detaunt and other stuff , 2hander borks usualy fall quickly.

Ib works just fine as 2hander , has the tools to make it work .

[Madcatmech]

I think it's clear that 2h is still drastically underperforming for all classes that are capable of doing so, besides sword master. Slayer, choppa, BO and chosen are all looking at less effective builds when 2h at this point, as is evident in the prevalence of strict builds being run. How often do we see a SM with a shield, or a choppa with a 2h?

SnB SM will never be a thing until premade 24v24 city sieges