Battlegrounds (read as scenarios) 101

[Shadowgurke]

Why is YOUR game, such a unique snowflake that this very FUNDAMENTAL piece of player vs player technique is suddenly not valid.

The myth of going for healers.

Stonetroll smashes dwarf. Dwarf not dead. Dwarf getting heals. Stonetroll is smart troll, wants to solve problem. Smash Heal.

What PvP games do you think work after the principle of killing healers first? WoW? CCing healers is way more effective and going for the healer makes the enemy team pressure your DPS a lot more.

DAoC? Next target stickgroups aside, healers are supposed to get interrupted/CCd trying to focus them first is going to result in you wiping really fast.

Killing healers is great and all that and if the opportunity arises then you should always go for it. But forcing it is such a bad idea.

Also: Killing tanks before DPS. This is even more laughable.

[ounkeo]

against an aggressive pug or pre made, this plan won't work.

The absolute best scenario plan is for your entire pug to move together and be aggressive from the get go. run for their back lines and snare tanks and dps as you pass. Otherwise do not stop. Force their healers into defensive and focus fire them.

priority is :

healer > rdps > mdps > tanks
or
healer > mdps > rdps > tanks

IF they are short on healers,

dps > healers > tanks


The only time you should attack a tank before a dps is if he is 2-hand user. a shield tank is still significantly more survivable than a guarded dps. assume the tank to have at least 20% parry, 20% block, defensive morales, higher health, higher armor, on top of high toughness and crowd control measures.

unless you have a lot of BW or Sorc, just control and kite the tanks.

[ounkeo]

against an aggressive pug or pre made, this plan won't work.

The absolute best scenario plan is for your entire pug to move together and be aggressive from the get go. run for their back lines and snare tanks and dps as you pass. Otherwise do not stop. Force their healers into defensive and focus fire them.

priority is :

healer > rdps > mdps > tanks
or
healer > mdps > rdps > tanks

IF they are short on healers,

dps > healers > tanks


The only time you should attack a tank before a dps is if he is 2-hand user. a shield tank is still significantly more survivable than a guarded dps. assume the tank to have at least 20% parry, 20% block, defensive morales, higher health, higher armor, on top of high toughness and crowd control measures.

unless you have a lot of BW or Sorc, just control and kite the tanks.

[Keyser]

I do not see how one can give such a specific priority list. A more general one would be more realistic. So start with a very basic strategy:
What do we want to achieve? We want to wipe the enemy as fast as possible while minimizing the chance of getting wiped. That sounds simple but it seems like some here did not understand the second part of the answer.

I. Our first goal should be to find an effective way to reduce that chance of getting killed because if we are dead we cannot achieve anything. That does not mean necessarily we have to kill their best dd first. Effective means to maximize the utility of killing someone divided by the time it takes, e.g. you could kill...
- some bad dds if they explode in 1 or 2 gcd
- their best dd even if it takes a little bit longer
- some squishy tank because it is much easier to kill his mates afterwards
- etc...

You do not have to kill all dds. In most cases one or two dds cannot achieve much. Sometimes you only need to kill one dd or even none.
That leads us to the second part.

II. Once you feel like their dds will not be able to put enough pressure on you to kill you, you should put pressure on their healers. Like in the first part you need to find an effective way to kill them. But be careful: if they are able to ress their dds again we go back to part I.


Regarding tactics: it is even more difficult to give a specific guide how to kill someone because it differs too much from grp to grp. Anyways, some general advice:
- snare and punt the guard tanks (banish darkness and hastened dismissal are not only useful in tor anroc)
- use your dmg morale simultaneously
- be aware of your team members abilities, e.g. BWs boiling blood, sorcs word of pain, whs BAL. Those are abilities which you can perfectly combine with your strongest ones.
- ...

[mdillard]

That brings up another question...
Is rDPS so effective in WAR because of an imbalance issue?
Or is that the way it's meant to go?

Also, AOE from sorcs and BW's seems like effective harrassment, but not really gonna kill anybody.
So is it better as rDPS to try to burst sing targets?

[mdillard]

Just for the record, I paid extra attention in scens lastnight, in very few scens did anybody deviate from kill healers firsst, and we won a lot of matches.
But I figure this is mostly theorycrafting anyway so it's whatever.

I do have to agree about going after tanks before dps though, I stand corrected as to the nature of pvp tanks in WAR.

[mdillard]

Or more pertinent in my life right now...
Jackson, or Ibanez?

[bichka]

>Healers<Tanks<DPS
Highly depends on situation. some tanks is goes full dps and drops faster than some dps (remember, they haven't detaunt).
Killing tank (if he get punted to zerg/ made mistake/ etc) able to give you time to push and fast kill of guarded dps/healer/loldpstank. Needless to say that killed KoBTS/Choosen is noticeable resistance debuff.

>Tanks, you have knock downs and knock backs.
Did you know that if your healer is dead, or running back from the spawn, THEY CAN'T HEAL YOU?
Sure they do, but there also immunity for CC and usually smart dps/tanks pushing with it.
Healer shouldn't stay and wait to get killed, so if your dps and tanks don't care(like in 99% pug sc) - just keep distance.

about sc at all. WAR is about killing things. Not about CTF. At least most sc on Azgal (and probably Norn) was like it. Dunno from where comes this flag obsession, IMHO it's supposed toi be as alternative way to win scenario. Not main goal.

[lilsabin]

i was looking to do a thread like this , but resigned myself , loool , people are special... i still dont understand how u can cap an objective and just leave it empty and go fight in mid or wherever else . You know the flag or objective aint gon defend it effin selse , lol . And it s not hard for pug to work together , ONCE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WILL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT A 1 MAN MISSION GAME , thing will start to get better... i dont even use ma guard anymore , cause PEOPLE HAVENT FIGURED YET THAT THEY HAVE TO STAY AT A DISTANCE OF YOU FOR IT TO WORK . EVERYBODY IS A WONDERER , LOL .