[Magus] How to rift effectively - guide

[footpatrol2]

So i like this interaction peterthepan3.

1) The ap trick with pets is just something you can do like other AP tricks you can do like you mentioned. Know that the pets are getting HTL protection also. I am unsure please correct me on this but I think they recieve passive healing via ritual's and group heals unsure. Potentially hit with leaping alteration. You'll have to resummon pets here and there irregardless which isn't a deal breaker on that idea.

2) So the opposition has to bring WP for group cleanse. AM's can't keep up with cleanse due to it not being group. RP can't cleanse what magus's do. How likely is a group running 2 WP. Pretty likely say 70% of the time? How likely is a group running 3 WP with cleansing power slotted? pretty unlikely.

Anyway, Its a fight on cleansing and magus's have a slight advantage with instant cast glean magic for dot protection where WP's have a 5 sec cooldown on each cleanse. You have 2 magus's. When the rift magus is not doing his damage cycle you can assist in dot application. I'm pretty sure 2 magus's can pump out more dots then 2 WP can cleanse. They have the disadvantage of a 5 sec cooldown. Can 2 magus's push out more then 2 dots every 5 sec's. yes.

You are correct that a single magus cannot keep up with 2 WP cleansing. But 2 magus's can counter that. If you can magically squeeze in a 3rd magus somewhere the dots are really going to hurt. The meta would basically have to change and 3 WP's would have to be taken in each group to counter 3 magus's dot application. The advantage of magus dots is that it is outgoing. The disadvantage of WP's cleanse is its limited only to group and not area like magus dots.

The WP's also might not be cleansing every 5 sec's in favor of burst healing if needed. This allows for more dots to be applied.

Please note: 2 magus's in a 12 man isn't the only dps your bringing so your throwing out other dots/debuff's also from assisting dps.

[peterthepan3]

1) HTL for pets? Lol. Pets die in like 2 hits. Melee completely counter HTL. Why do you purport HTL to be the holy grail and a sort of godmode thing when it isn't, nor does it stop damage COMPLETELY from coming?
2) A good wb/2 parties will probably have at least 3 WPs. Bring 2 swordmasters with Whispering Winds and gg magus. Cleansing power is slotted by all WPs in largescale.
3) Even if Magus dots aren't cleansed, they deal **** damage. The only dots worth mentioning are the ST ones, and Infernal Blast (with the crit tactic). Honestly you will only tickle people with magus change aoe dots. Renork can probably back me up on this.

i dont know if you're trolling tbh if the magus was a potent dot caster (like an affli warlock), then ok. but unless you've actually played a magus, you won't know of what i speak.
there's a reason on live they were only ever useful in rvr/largescale for one purpose (rifting).

[footpatrol2]

I don't know how many premade city fights you were part of. I was part of a lot of premade city fights. A lot of what I am saying is very standard stuff and i assume most people know it. I am surprised with your comeback. HTL is important in fights that are higher then 6 man.

1) If you melee comes close to me good thats what I want I don't have to rift you in.

2) HTL is just as important as guard in larger scale fights. I never said that HTL is the holy grail. I never said HTL is godmode. Your cutting Rdps damage by 45% at minimum higher if group members are stacking disrupt/dodge and higher on healers due to higher then normal willpower. If you don't see the value in this...

The HTL on the pets is just a by-product of you protecting your group. Your not HTL'ing to protect your pets.

3) If we are talking about warbands now which I was focusing on 12 man. You can have 3 WP and bring double whisper in one group. Thats only 1 group that is safe from magus dots completely. Your specifically building to beat what I put up. How likely is it that you will bring a double whisper group to counter the magus dots? Highly unlikely unless there is a meta shift.

3) The damage that the change magus brings is assisting damage. It allows spike damage to go through easier. Its similar to how you can't save anyone with hots because you need big single target heals to save people. Magus dots are the reverse of hots, you get your spike damage somewhere else.

4) I've actually played a magus here in RoR and on live.

You will never bring a Magus into a WB for anything other than Rift (coupled with the PBAOE burst capabilities a Magus has in the demonology tree). A 'close range change magus' will not melt anything whatsoever. Dissolving Mist is only good for chokepoints.
Please trust me on this.

If we blow this up to a warband setting. I've been part of warbands that had 1 rift magus being taken and 3 close range change magus's being taken. The 3 close range change magus's are putting a lot of pressure on the healers. If the opposition isn't stacking 2 WP in each group that means a lot more dots are sticking which means a lot more spike damage is getting through. If you have 3 close range change magus's assisting off each other your laying down a hell of a lot of AoE pressure on the healers.

It only takes 4 warband slots out of a warband to bring 4 magus's. It takes 8 WP to get 2 group cleanses per group in a opposing warband. When you start stacking magus's they become a lot more powerful.

[peterthepan3]

can you define for me what a 'cloes range change maugs' is, what aoe pressure they are bringing (i reiterate: a simple hot will counter all their damage, and they tickle at best), and what classes you would lose to form an OPTIMAL wb/12man.

I am talking about meta, i.e. THE best group compositions. you would never bring more than 1 Magus.

'assisting damage'? then why not bring a dps chosen or a dps zealot? Changing AOE dots will NOT pressure ANY decent group with DECENT heals. that's just a fact.

If you can show me otherwise against decent opponents, I will concede.

and I didn't really partake much in city sieges as they were pretty monotonous and not indicative of a shred of individual skill as far as I'm concerned, but I did go riftbot on a few occasions when guildies wanted it. and there was never a 'close range changing magus' (doesn't even make sense - why would you go close range as changing? lol) spot.

[peterthepan3]

hold the line doesn't negate from the fact that: a) magus pets dies very quickly; b) 100% uptime of the pet is almost impossible.

I admire your enthusiasm - i really do. i think its great that you push for different comp settings. But there is no such thing as a close range changing magus: your close range spec is demonology. Demonology is the only useful spec in large fights because of rift (Mist is SITUATIONAL).

[Renork]

hold the line doesn't negate from the fact that: a) magus pets dies very quickly; b) 100% uptime of the pet is almost impossible.

I admire your enthusiasm - i really do. i think its great that you push for different comp settings. But there is no such thing as a close range changing magus: your close range spec is demonology. Demonology is the only useful spec in large fights because of rift (Mist is SITUATIONAL).

Look at his post history. Morale dumps, lol.

[footpatrol2]

I'm kinda getting tired of people making fun of me or denouncing my gaming experiences. I don't generally do this to other people. I don't really need your approval or care about it. I'm just trying to share with the community something else you could do that is competitive/fun, that I have partook in. Are there weaknesses? Sure. But point to any build and I'll find a build that will tear it apart. Thats a sign of a good game. You don't have to do things one way always. If that was the case I'd leave this game a long time ago.

People making fun of me and denouncing my experiences is my curse for constantly thinking outside of the box and other players trying to shame me into their box of thinking. Most of the stuff I write is not specifically for the commentators but for the readers that are not commenting.

One day probably not me but someone like me will come up with a new build. They will hand that build to players that are still thinking in the box. The players thinking in the box will take ownership of it and think they created it when in reality they did not.

Do what you want with the information I provided. I'm done with this posting here.

@peterthepan3
Thank you for posting this guide. There is a lot of useful information here.

[Renork]

I'm kinda getting tired of people making fun of me or denouncing my gaming experiences. I don't generally do this to other people. I don't really need your approval or care about it. I'm just trying to share with the community something else you could do that is competitive/fun, that I have partook in. Are there weaknesses? Sure. But point to any build and I'll find a build that will tear it apart. Thats a sign of a good game. You don't have to do things one way always. If that was the case I'd leave this game a long time ago.

People making fun of me and denouncing my experiences is my curse for constantly thinking outside of the box and other players trying to shame me into their box of thinking. Most of the stuff I write is not specifically for the commentators but for the readers that are not commenting.

One day probably not me but someone like me will come up with a new build. They will hand that build to players that are still thinking in the box. The players thinking in the box will take ownership of it and think they created it when in reality they did not.

Do what you want with the information I provided. I'm done with this posting here.

@peterthepan3
Thank you for posting this guide. There is a lot of useful information here.

Paper WAR does not "translate" well into live WAR. You are not the first, nor will be the last player who thinks this way, every game has people that believe paper = live. You're entitled to your own ideas of course, but you also should respect someone else's point of view if you want yours to be respected. There's plenty of people who played the magi class on live extensively, and experience speaks over everything else. Now, I'm not saying experience is "absolute", but those that play the class for years will know a lot more than those who barely touched the class or simply played it to r35/rr40.

[footpatrol2]

Would it matter if I said I actually did what i'm talking about?

Your gaming experiences count while mine does not?

I'm just saying this is what you can do and I have actually done it. Its not paper to me but its paper to you. Which is why I don't need your approval because I know it works.

[Renork]

Would it matter if I said I actually did what i'm talking about?

Your gaming experiences count while mine does not?

I'm just saying this is what you can do and I have actually done it. Its not paper to me but its paper to you. Which is why I don't need your approval because I know it works.

I'm not going back and forth with you, I'm very familiar with your type of posts :^) and as I said, you ARE entitled to your own opinion.