2H BO vs 2H chosen

[quda]

Guys you just kidding. All tanks cant deal really good dps with 2h weapon. Really 2h tank is just awesome looking warrior, but dealing dps? Lol none of them cant beat any other dps class, aswell as good dps can beat them. I had 80rr chosen at live, and the most of my kills was people lower rr than me. This is the future and all fun for 2h tank. All other enemies that you can beat with 2h you can kill better with 1h+shield. Yes you can control sometimes heals and make them run, but really good heal never fears 2h tank. I wanted 2h BO, but after reading this I realised that making dps tank is really wasting of time. They are much more useless in sc and much more useless at ORVR.

[DirkDaring]

2h chosen can pump out dps in t4 due to power of the gods and touch of palsy. But I dont think their single target can compare to BO right now. Ravage got the nerf bat long time ago.

As a long time chosen player I think 2h chosen is the best 2h tank mostly due to suppression. Helps mitigate all the guards damage allowing you to stay in longer and Ravage away

Completely agree and its why I think that for group play Chosen are really the only ones who should be running 2h. I know the 2h BO can be a fun class to play, I know they can do good damage, force healers to detaunt, etc etc. They are great for PUG vs PUG matches because frankly noone ever focuses a tank. So that 2H BO is probably safe rushing in, face smacking some caster/healer and doing good damage and thinking they are pro getting high damage but then wondering why they are still losing and blaming his allies.

When in reality what that 2H BO doesnt realize is that he is sucking up time from the healers who now have to heal him, and also that healer now has to spam BIG heals on the MDPS or RDPS who are getting focused.

After playing both RDPS (lvl 35 BW and a lvl 23 Sorc) and playing healers (in tier 2) ive realized how crucial guard is in that its SOOO much easier to HoT up two people, and casually cast big heals on the one tanking damage, than it is to spam heal. That guarded DPS class, is not just 2x easier to keep up (if guard is eating 50% of the damage) its literally probably more like 4x easier to keep up. Because those small heal ticks help SO much more than when they are not guarded.

So a 2H BO might think they are leet deeps, helpin the group, shreddin dem healerz bruh! But its really cuasing a negative impact on the group and unless they happen to be part of a stacked melee train or having excess healers to keep everyone up, frankly they are actually a NEGATIVE to the group.

Contrast that to a well built 2h Chosen, who can easily have 50%+ parry from Surpression, who spams wounds debuff + rending blade that is proccing Crip Strikes on everyone of the enemy, further reducing their damage 25%, who has a MDPS class guarded and is /assisting. A 2h BO cant do that, even tho the BO does more damage... He is many times over squishier than the Chosen.

THAT type of Chosen is invaluable to the group and while you can argue SnB is better for more tankiness which is true, I dont think anyone can honestly say that a 2H Chosen who is specced TANK, doesnt add tremendous value to the group. Maybe not "Ideal Meta" for a 6v6 but definitely a HUGE asset in any 12v12 game or WB.

To me, its frankly no contest who the better 2h tank is... And its because of the larger picture of how you interact with the group. So yeah, youll lose some damage over a BO, but the impact is night and day difference on how much you help.

Yup what i was referring too in my earlier post, about S+B being superior to 2H unless you are going 2H for a special ability while still specing tank , which can be very effective, but most screw up by going 2H specing to try and be dps and end up failing, you can still be 2H have 600-700+ toughness 7k wounds , and still guard and assist while applying whatever special ablity you gained by going 2H .

I don`t play my chosen very often atm he is speced 2H hes at 699 toughness 6400 wounds but not in full Dev only has 2 pieces with 4 it`ll be closer to 6900 wounds , still has 500 str with aura and with supression 50% parry atm but i also carry a S+B in bag incase i feel like wearing it

Dont really need rending blade to proc crippling strikes, but it does help land it more often

[askeltonnerd]

To be honest. In reference to previous posts, if you create a DPS tank and compare it to a pure DPS class such as a BW etc etc then of course you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Do not take it that because tanks have a DPS tree that you will literally do as much damage as your medium/ light armour wearing counterparts.

In my experience (on live), yes, tanks did far less damage than a PURE dps but still considerably more than a tank. Though you give up the extra armour/ abilities that come with having a shield, you have the extra damage that a 2 hander brings.

You either have a pure tank OR a pure dps. In between is a heavy armour wearing 2h wielding tank. More damage than a tank, still more armour/ defensive abilities than a pure dps. 2h tanks have been the only class I have ever played and have always been successful with it. You do less damage than pure dps of course, thats obvious. BUT be it in a group setting or on the receiving end of an attempted gank, the extra armour from being a tank along with the extra damage has always pulled me through and a lot of the time with ease.

If you want to talk specifics, then no, of course you don't do as much damage as a pure dps and they will always do like double your damage but that's not what a 2h wielding tank is about.. despite people always saying you MUST go one way or the other, I PERSONALLY have found being a balance of the 2 archetypes has always paid off but if its PURE "damage!!!!111!!1" you want then of course a dps tank is not for you.

[Shadowgurke]

2h tanks have been the only class I have ever played and have always been successful with it.

Doesn't that mean that you have no idea what you are talking about?

[askeltonnerd]

No surely it means the opposite and that YOU have no idea what you are talking about. Just because someone has an opposing opinion that contradicts your views, doesn't mean they are wrong or some raving lunatic. I have no reason to lie, I have nothing to prove? haha.

[Shadowgurke]

You have never played a MDPS, you have never played a SnB tank but you claim that 2H Tanks are viable. I don't even necessarily disagree with you and I still think that's not a good starting point

[askeltonnerd]

Well, if 2h tanks are all I have ever played then, yes, I won't comment on things I do not know about. I do not claim to be the fountain of knowledge on the matters of Warhammer, BUT, I am giving (as I said previously), 'MY' personal experiences playing the archetype. I do not state anything as fact, BUT, I do state that regardless of whether or not I am chased off the forums with torches and pitch forks, I HAVE had success with them. When I say success, I mean in the only way that you can be successful in a PvP MMO and that is killing other players. What other measure of success is there when deciding whether or not a class is worth playing. (this is all from a RvR stand point by the way, no comment on end game pve etc).

As I previously stated, I never said they would do as much damage as a class built for that purpose, that is not the point. I was just letting the OP know that IF what he really wanted to do a 2h Tank then 'I' like many others have had success with them an will continue to do so.

[th3gatekeeper]

Well, if 2h tanks are all I have ever played then, yes, I won't comment on things I do not know about. I do not claim to be the fountain of knowledge on the matters of Warhammer, BUT, I am giving (as I said previously), 'MY' personal experiences playing the archetype. I do not state anything as fact, BUT, I do state that regardless of whether or not I am chased off the forums with torches and pitch forks, I HAVE had success with them. When I say success, I mean in the only way that you can be successful in a PvP MMO and that is killing other players. What other measure of success is there when deciding whether or not a class is worth playing. (this is all from a RvR stand point by the way, no comment on end game pve etc).

As I previously stated, I never said they would do as much damage as a class built for that purpose, that is not the point. I was just letting the OP know that IF what he really wanted to do a 2h Tank then 'I' like many others have had success with them an will continue to do so.

Only thing I will share here mate, not that you are wrong, is that I played a Knight solely for a while when I first came here. I went full 2H and specced after a guildie to was "BIS" and played a 2H Knight as well who said they were good. I tried and tried to make them a viable class and deceived MYSELF for a long time thinking I was good.

It wasnt until I made a BW, that I realized truly how bad and ill-informed I was. I immediately specced my Knight SNB. Now, Chosen is a little different than a Knight, due to Crip Strikes, Supression, 15% crit tactic, and Rending Blade. Those things DONT mean you can play a DPS tank, but merely a 2H tank is viable.

Now I have experience playing almost every type of class, from MDPS, to various tanks, to RDPS, and even healers (in lower tiers) and I can say my perspective has changed ALOT from back when I played my Knight solely and even made an SM as I was told they were the "DPS Tank" to play....

Without perspective from the other classes/rolls you really wont have much lens in which to view if you are "successful" or not... In fact I dont even know how you would judge that quite frankly... There is no "tank" stat at the end of SCs or something... With DPS atleast you can look at your total DPS and KBs and Deaths and get SOME gauge. Healers get total healing.... Tanks get nothing. Frankly a tank high on the damage charts means next to zero for me because their slow non-burst damage doesnt kill anyone. There is a reason people kill MDPS or RDPS first... Because they have crazy burst damage AND are squishy.

So I guess the TLDR is: You need to play other classes to earn a larger perspective and how having a defensive built tank makes a HUGE difference for the group.

Thats just my 2 cents... I tried to be a DPS tank and wasted time on TWO different tanks to make this happen all to my own avail and now looking back realize how ignorant I was in my quest.....

[lilsabin]

dont listen to all this haters saying you cannot dps as a tank .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcTWzdlCACU

enjoy this video and let them talk all the **** they want

[Aiven]

I played as a 2h IB(back in 2009). And i had a lot's of alts. And from my experience i can state that full defence tank is not a way to go. I have been guarding BW in middle of enemy zerg, and can't say i lacked toughness to survive. Only one thing where 2h is needed is lord room shieldwalls. In all other times foes have no reason to focus tank over healer|dps. That's why full def is not needed. Yes you can block guard damage, but even if don't you still have parry and you still take less dmg than any dd or healer that you guard. And group heals will keep you alive. That's why you don't realy need s&b and can take 2h. Question is what you lose and what you gain when you take 2h exept damage. IB got cave in which was powerful dot|KD. And with that i could burst sorc in 7 sec (if sorc wasted detaunt|or were sleepy) that makes you menace which foes can't safely ignore. But considering your armor they can't bring ya down quick too. And if they focus you that means melee dps have easy time. That what makes you tank in pvp. Can't ignore, cant kill fast. Or you can stack more def be useful in other way. You can mitigate dmg by guarding and buff/debuff foes. And be mobie support|health pool. Question is will your support be useful enough to justify lack of damage. And where is this point when you don't need def stats any more. I seen a lot of BO which were totaly unkillible. But they were useless in any other way and thus ignored. And their guard can be momentaly negated by knockback. So pvp tanking is balance between you offensive|supporting potential and ability to be take hits (guarding someone ofc). If you can take 2h and still find this balance you are good to go as tank, not as dps. You don't want to take focus offence, str and ws in every slot and pretend to be poor dps. That what many 2h tanks try to do and fail(or well... pretend to be successful by killing stuff in PUG's and random skirmishes against random opponents, but not coordinated groups) .