[Magus] Why so weak?

[peterthepan3]

You always have to have stronger and weaker classes, you just have to make sure the weaker classes look and have something awesome making them worth playing.

You sound like a Mythic employee!
If by 'awesome' you mean changing the demons to that greater demon of tzeentch, I'm with you on that!

[Tesq]

hm okay but i play mid path and just use 1-2 dots and one of tham are a debuff not a dmg dot

pandemonium, glean magic, seed of chaos are 3 if you go mid.

Which is why we can ascertain that 90% of Daknall's damage is mist. If you are using just glean magic and panda against a good healer and relying on rend winds to kill them, then you will get bad results

Heal debuff would be a bandaid, and it is something provided by the squig, marauder, choppa, witch elf, and dps dok already. Would be nice to have something different from the mold: for example, I remember the old Perils of the Warp was a sort of anti-caster barb that was nice on paper but crap in practice.

but, but cross mirorr ç_ç!

don't know maybe it would be a bandait but it will creat more variety, insetad go for exemple sorc+squig you can go sorc + magus cos both st would have 1 heal debuff, or go magus + squig cos you have 2x heal debuff.
I like have some kind of redundancy between classes it reduces the gap between the set up you can pike.
For rkd i dont see anyother candidate really.

[peterthepan3]

but, but cross mirorr ç_ç!

don't know maybe it would be a bandait but it will creat more variety, insetad go for exemple sorc+squig you can go sorc + magus cos both st would have 1 heal debuff, or go magus + squig cos you have 2x heal debuff.
I like have some kind of redundancy between classes it reduces the gap between the set up you can pike.
For rkd i dont see anyother candidate really.

good points.

going to stop posting on here and wait for balance forums, think the OT has his answer

[Daknallbomb]

hmmm right

[Nidwin]

think the OT has his answer

Did he?


The Magus isn't weak it's just that it's gameplay isn't burst damage while everyone and their mothers seem to only care about burst damage, insta kills and perfect 6vs6 epeen gameplay.

I'm not saying Magus couldn't use a buff, I'll take whatever devs will throw our way, but it's always tricky to buff the most versalite hybrid (mdps/rdps/support) in a game without making it OP.

[peterthepan3]

think the OT has his answer

Did he?


The Magus isn't weak it's just that it's gameplay isn't burst damage while everyone and their mothers seem to only care about burst damage, insta kills and perfect 6vs6 epeen gameplay.

I'm not saying Magus couldn't use a buff, I'll take whatever devs will throw our way, but it's always tricky to buff the most versalite hybrid (mdps/rdps/support) in a game without making it OP.

He was asking why the class is weak, and the answers in the thread have explained how the Magus has always been in this position unfortunately. It can work, but the effort required just to gauge 70% of the results of a sorc/other DPS is silly - but hopefully things will change here. So I suppose he did, sort of

What is its gameplay? DoTs? AM does it better. CC? Needs stronger CC/more. 'Stationary DPS'? Then it -needs- to have strong DPS capability to justify standing still for so long and relying on a pet that is stuck in place.

It is a tricky one, and the class is a versatile class as you say, but being a 'jack of all trades' doesn't really translate well in anything other than 1v1.

I couldn't care less about burst damage (the class does have it), but to deny that burst damage is the meta would be ignorant. Ideally DoT classes would be able to fit into the meta, but that would require an overhaul to TTK/damage in general.

ps. if I come across as whining incessantly about the Magus, I apologise. It's the only class that I really give a monkeys about and I am used to seeing it butchered on live whenever a change was implemented.

[Nidwin]

Whatever you say my Lord.

[Renork]

@peterpan I don't disagree. You can increase the utility by adding "auras" to the pet, pink horror increases crit chance by 5% to everyone within 50ft, blue horror aura can be a bubble to everyone within 50 feet (proc once every 3s) or reduce cooldowns, etc. Utility is what magus lacks. But again, I have been silently looking at the way balance discussions go and they are pretty atrocious and horribly biased. Only reason I stopped playing the class here is because the gear is not so good at our current meta. I do enjoy killing magi on my wh though :^]

[footpatrol2]

The current meta and meta thats dominated this game is a kiting meta. So it seems that the magus/engie is weak because players are used to pugging and don't fully utilize group synergy. When players Pug they participate in the kiting meta.

You don't have to play this game in the kiting playstyle. You can make a stupid strong group that can be played statically.

I've played in/lead static premade groups. You pick a spot and own it. You dare the opposition to get close to you. The magus/Engineer is critical in those groups. There are many situations in this game that utilize this style of play such as:

Fighting in in-closed spaces. Hallways/Doorways/Tunnels/Chokepoints.
Holding a BO with some type of terrain features. (not completely open terrian, It can be done but its the weakest here.)
Keep defenses hallways.

These static premade groups depend highly on being able to permanently hold the line if the situation calls for it. Again this requires at minimum 3 tanks. Because of this, static premade groups do better in a 12 man setting. It also utilizes body blocking hence formations. Static premade groups can outlast horrific damage and can dish out tons of damage if concentrated on a specific spot. Which is usually the spot they are claiming/standing in. The static premade groups also require a high amount of coordination to get max effect.

Why hasn't Static meta taken off?
Introduction to pvp is through kiting meta.
High amounts of coordination. (actually controlling people's movement/having formations. You move as a extremely close knit cluster. You don't really move a lot with these groups so its less exciting.)
Heavy use of hold the line/perma HTL (HTL in the competitive setting always has been slightly unpopular)
Requires 12 man setting to really get good due to HTL. (Most people just pug, Then try 6 man. Rarely expand to anything higher.)
Having good tanks. Tanks able to rotating challenge shouts/switchin guards coordinate with each other blah blah.
You don't chase targets down if your trying to hold a position. Less exciting.
The playstyle is extremely different then the kiting playstyle, hence leaving their comfort zone/ risking their ego's.

Most people haven't played this type of playstyle. Engie's/Magus are built almost purely for this style of play. So its percieved that these classes are weak because they are playing a static class in a kiting meta.

[Zealote]

Have to admit, that's the first time I've heard of that kinda playstyle in WAR, it does sound like a really interesting idea. Still seems like you'd get rolled over by an equally gd melee train but know I could be completely wrong about that, would love to see it in action!