Overarching balance changes

[roadkillrobin]

@roadkillrobin

Several of those are rendered useless because of the Chosen/KOTBS auras as opposed to pots.

Why? The only thing of those i mentioned that Chosen/Knight can buff/debuff is Str.

Chosen/Knight cant buff, Int/Bs/Wp/Armor

I also forgot that WP/DoK armor aura would become better something thats not that great tbh.

[Jaycub]

For pots, remember we don't have liniments or special type pots yet, so it's impacting the use of a lot of buffs since everyone is using power+armor pots right now.

The real problem with buff stacking I think is the the values are totally out of whack. You have classes like BG who have a toughness debuff, but it's single target and within 10% of the value of the chosen debuff... and the chosen debuff (aura) is a buff and debuff all rolled into one that's constantly on, costs no GCD and can't be removed.

It's asinine imo that single target buffs/debuffs are the same value as AoE ones that requires less input and have no counterplay etc...

[Landaren]

A good chance for auras would be to have them only debuff the enemy by 25% of the value of the aura.

100 increase for allies
25 decrease on enemies.

Allow the debuff to stack with other classes debuffs

[peterthepan3]

'Zealot/RP power buff, Chosen/Knight str buff, IB armor str/wp buff, BG str/wp buff. BO armor buff, SM/BO Biggest/Nature would become better. Are those i can think of right now.'

Zealot str/runepriest str is provided by chosen/kotbs
IB/BG str is provided by chosen/kotbs (the willpower buffs are very good and are used regardless of pots)
BO armor buff is very useful and, as I said, I use Da Greenest! even with armor pots as despite how good the buff is it's reactionary and proc-based which isn't what you want to rely on in competitive pvp. Also BO buffs resistances, which are already covered by - yes, you guessed it! - kotbs/chosen
WP has a toughness debuff (if spec'd) and str buff...both covered by chosen/kotbs

@kweedko
my chars are r40/rr40 as I am not into playing with oil to get my rr up. sorry, but that isn't really my sort of PvP, and I prefer to wait it out and grind when I actually need to. also there is a lack of competition as of late so there hasn't been much of a motive.

if you want to insult me and my brother, go ahead! i'm sure it'll go unnoticed


I don't think pots are a problem, but - as said above - the kotbs/chosen auras themselves rendering a lot of other classes' buffs useless.

[kweedko]

A good chance for auras would be to have them only debuff the enemy by 25% of the value of the aura.

100 increase for allies
25 decrease on enemies.

Allow the debuff to stack with other classes debuffs

nah equal numbers on increase/decrease is better cause they compensate each other when chosen and ktobs meet in one fight, but with current stat it's just flat buff for group surv.

@kweedko
my chars are r40/rr40 as I am not into playing with oil to get my rr up. sorry, but that isn't really my sort of PvP, and I prefer to wait it out and grind when I actually need to. also there is a lack of competition as of late so there hasn't been much of a motive.

if you want to insult me and my brother, go ahead! i'm sure it'll go unnoticed

Im not insulting you or you broter here only you atacking me and have to defend. Don't use provoke mate and then you not gonna be beaten or TANK like a man and not like a squishi cloth.

[frankystein65]

I'm hesitant to suggest any character "balances". I played War nearly from the start and the most frustrating thing during that 5 1/2 years were supposed character or class balances. nerf this and that upsets that player class. buff that and the opposite class will complain. I always thought the natural character/class make ups were actually pretty well balanced. I have yet to see any other game since come close.

if it were just me I'd keep changes to a minimum and address obvious bugs and potential hacks/exploits and let player skill rule the day. just my thoughts

[kweedko]

I'm hesitant to suggest any character "balances". I played War nearly from the start and the most frustrating thing during that 5 1/2 years were supposed character or class balances. nerf this and that upsets that player class. buff that and the opposite class will complain. I always thought the natural character/class make ups were actually pretty well balanced. I have yet to see any other game since come close.

if it were just me I'd keep changes to a minimum and address obvious bugs and potential hacks/exploits and let player skill rule the day. just my thoughts

Cause devs on offserv start changing the balance before of majority of players even reach the end game and realize what the game is.

And here not goona be ballance forums untill 70 sets implemented or even further.

And here and now this all is just speculations, muscul play, and flood.

[Jaycub]

I'm hesitant to suggest any character "balances". I played War nearly from the start and the most frustrating thing during that 5 1/2 years were supposed character or class balances. nerf this and that upsets that player class. buff that and the opposite class will complain. I always thought the natural character/class make ups were actually pretty well balanced. I have yet to see any other game since come close.

if it were just me I'd keep changes to a minimum and address obvious bugs and potential hacks/exploits and let player skill rule the day. just my thoughts

The environment on this server is way different than live. The community is much more hardcore, the gigantic gear gap isn't there from live either. People on live could wade into entire warbands with a small group and destroy them, but that just doesn't happen on this server and it been pretty funny seeing some people get used to that.

Devs on live did everything they could to keep the game casualized and mechanics to have class balance either lost in the noise or created an environment where the majority wouldn't care about it made evident mostly in the way they handled scenarios imo.


As far as balance changes are concerned nothing major will happen or turn the game it was on live or is here on its head. It will only take a few tweaks here and there to make things a bit better for some of the classes that are neglected in whatever arena they are doing poorly in.

The thread might seem like people are trying to totally change the game, but in reality if this thread went on for 300 pages probably only 5% of the ideas would even be looked at and even less brought up for serious review by the community in the balance forums. It's just people shotgunning ideas or arguing over what the problems are, for instance with cleanse people are focusing on group cleanse, looking into what debuffs are being removed by each class etc...

[Bozzax]

You are correct that WP/DoK shine for more reasons than just cleanse. But I wasnt under the impression that this thread was discussing class balance specifically but more over-arching game mechanics.

I 100% disagree with you saying that cleansing oldest,random or newest matters little. I also 100% disagree that cleansing is solely to prevent debuff build up, it is atm because theres nothing else you can do with it, but if the mechanic were changed then the capacity for its use goes far beyond arbitrary spam to prevent debuff overload.

Having the choice to actively time cleanse on things like armor/heal/wounds debuffs would completely change the effectiveness of cleanse as a mechanic and probably differentiate good and great healers.

Read up a bit and you may notice quite a lot of the posts is about group cleanse (or DOK/WP cleanse).

I wrote oldest, newest or random matters little which is correct. Premades have no problem keeping HD up regardless of which you go with.

I doubt making the skill required for healing higher is a good solution by forcing healers to acivly targeting effects. Or should i write create the need for another add on that noobs lack and which make them usless healers. Nerfslayer that automatically selected ID and right clicked it should give you a hint on what will pop up.

[Jaycub]

If cleansed removed the newest, than it would be WAY better in terms of reactionary/skillful play.

Take for instance our old 6 man was IB/Knight/WP/RP/Slayer/WL, theres only 1 HD in there, and all our damage dealer classes deal in curses except slayer. Even so we can realibly cover that HD with the current system, especially if you utilize the RP buffs for a quick ailment.

However if it removed the oldest the doks or any healers could time, or react based on calls in TS or whatever and drop a cleanse spam and we wouldn't have any HD on a target for another 10 seconds.


This is also an example of how group cleanse, or just cleanse in general shapes the meta comps. We swapped out IB for SM not just because SM deals more damage and is honestly just way better, but having another class using hexes (something doks cleanse) helps us keep more important debuffs on specifically stuff like shatter limbs which just melts off in our old comp.