Dalgrimar wrote:I hate that only way to get the best defensive tank set atm is trough PQ's.
Them imagine how pve players will feel when they suck at pvp and have to spend weeks/months farming medallions for an armor set that fits there gameplay where as pvp players have to spend a day to get a ruin set.
I don't think it's really a question of difficulty.
It's the fact that an entire set --one which happens to be the best for the defining role of an entire archetype-- is only obtainable through PvE. I said in my initial post that I'm aware people have different opinions with regards to PvP vs. PvE rewards, but I think the above type of situation is awful. If there's genuinely a significant number of players who only like PvE, and would suffer greatly by having it removed as a PvE reward, then surely it'd be preferable to make it obtainable via both routes?
The other point that could be made about your post is this: assuming Ruin is indeed so much easier to get than anni/merc*, is that what people want? For PvE not only to give the best of one type of set, but also to give that set far more easily than the equivalent (but inferior) PvP set?
(Note: Ruin is just an example. As I said originally, my only issue (a personal one - this is an opinion) is if this situation is going to be the same later on.)
Edit: @TenTonHammer Sorry didn't see that before I posted. Think I sort of said (or at least implied) it in this post, but yeah if it's solely a 'stop-gap', it prob doesn't matter. It's only if this is how it's intended to be later on that I'd bring it up.
Dalgrimar wrote:I hate that only way to get the best defensive tank set atm is trough PQ's.
Them imagine how pve players will feel when they suck at pvp and have to spend weeks/months farming medallions for an armor set that fits there gameplay where as pvp players have to spend a day to get a ruin set.
I don't think it's really a question of difficulty.
It's the fact that an entire set --one which happens to be the best for the defining role of an entire archetype-- is only obtainable through PvE. I said in my initial post that I'm aware people have different opinions with regards to PvP vs. PvE rewards, but I think the above type of situation is awful. If there's genuinely a significant number of players who only like PvE, and would suffer greatly by having it removed as a PvE reward, then surely it'd be preferable to make it obtainable via both routes?
The other point that could be made about your post is this: assuming Ruin is indeed so much easier to get than anni/merc*, is that what people want? For PvE not only to give the best of one type of set, but also to give that set far more easily than the equivalent (but inferior) PvP set?
(Note: Ruin is just an example. As I said originally, my only issue (a personal one - this is an opinion) is if this situation is going to be the same later on.)
Edit: @TenTonHammer Sorry didn't see that before I posted. Think I sort of said (or at least implied) it in this post, but yeah if it's solely a 'stop-gap', it prob doesn't matter. It's only if this is how it's intended to be later on that I'd bring it up.
So are you arguing that PvE-focused players should be able to farm PvE content to get the PvP sets, since you're arguing that PvP-focused players should be able to do PvP to get the PvE sets?
DeusMechanicus wrote:So are you arguing that PvE-focused players should be able to farm PvE content to get the PvP sets, since you're arguing that PvP-focused players should be able to do PvP to get the PvE sets?
Nope, that wasn't the specific argument I was making in my posts.
As I said:
Zealote wrote:It's the fact that an entire set --one which happens to be the best for the defining role of an entire archetype-- is only obtainable through PvE.
It's not some overarching opinion about being able to do PvP to get a PvE set (which Ruin is, I believe); it's my opinion regarding the fact that, in the current system, PvE is the only way to get the best set. (But as I've said, it's only if this situation is reproduced with later sets that I really care, though I do personally dislike it being this way currently as well.)
As to your more general and abstract point about being able to PvE to get PvP sets, and vice versa: I don't really have a strong view on that as I'm not really interested in PvE. As I said before though, if people who like PvE feel they would be -vely affected enough by having to do PvP to warrant bringing it up, then sure, why not make them obtainable via both routes? I don't have any personal problem with that, though it might cause issues with the lakes being empty while people farm PvE to get the sets (as we've seen happen on RoR several times in the past with GR/Rune-Scribed/etc gear), so it'd have to be implemented in such a way as to prevent that, if that's possible.
Zealote wrote: <snip, snip > As to your more general and abstract point about being able to PvE to get PvP sets, and vice versa: I don't really have a strong view on that as I'm not really interested in PvE. As I said before though, if people who like PvE feel they would be -vely affected enough by having to do PvP to warrant bringing it up, then sure, why not make them obtainable via both routes? I don't have any personal problem with that, though it might cause issues with the lakes being empty while people farm PvE to get the sets (as we've seen happen on RoR several times in the past with GR/Rune-Scribed/etc gear), so it'd have to be implemented in such a way as to prevent that, if that's possible.
Mmo rule #14: different Sets of gear are obtainable by different types of Gameplay. Since we are developing so close with our community around US, a lot of ppl try to sneak in ideas about making the game more easy - or making Sets available without doing the content that is designed to lead them to their target. Pq Sets will NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE be obtainable by doing rvr.
Last edited by saupreusse on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
saupreusse wrote:Mmo rule #14: different Sets of gear are obtainable by different types of Gameplay. Since we are developing so close with our community around US, a lot of ppl try to sneak in ideas about making the game more easy - or making Sets available without doing the content that is designed to lead them to their target. Pq Sets will NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE be obtainable by doing rvr.
Echoing the tone of your post, rule #1 of dialogue and debate: Address all points made by the other party, rather than just the ones you find easiest to attempt to refute. In particular, make sure you address the main point made by that other party.
That said, you've failed to address my original --and primary-- point, which, to quote myself again, was:
Zealote wrote:It's the fact that an entire set --one which happens to be the best for the defining role of an entire archetype-- is only obtainable through PvE.
Zealote wrote:It's not some overarching opinion about being able to do PvP to get a PvE set (which Ruin is, I believe); it's my opinion regarding the fact that, in the current system, PvE is the only way to get the best set.
I don't see a way (at the moment, at least) of making it clearer than in my quoted posts above. It seems that you feel that PvE being the only way to obtain the very best set --and, indeed, the best for their primary role-- for 3 classes per side, is ok. I disagree.
Zealote wrote:[...]That said, you've failed to address my original --and primary-- point, which, to quote myself again, was:
Zealote wrote:It's the fact that an entire set --one which happens to be the best for the defining role of an entire archetype-- is only obtainable through PvE.
Zealote wrote:It's not some overarching opinion about being able to do PvP to get a PvE set (which Ruin is, I believe); it's my opinion regarding the fact that, in the current system, PvE is the only way to get the best set.
I don't see a way (at the moment, at least) of making it clearer than in my quoted posts above.[...]
First of all, this wasn't an attack on you - since it wasn't even you who came up with that idea. - I just wanted to get this straight before people start a useless discussion about it. My post was NOT referring to your primary point. - I'm sorry if it was not clear enough, I edited the quote box now that I am not on my tiny phone screen anymore.
Regarding your "primary" point: While you are right that at this very state of the game, the best tank set is obtainable only through pve, that doesn't mean that it will be like that once we roll out the higher level equipment. Furthermore - and even more important,is the fact that Most things about the PQ sets havent been touched/balanced yet.
Zealote wrote:[...]It seems that you feel that PvE being the only way to obtain the very best set --and, indeed, the best for their primary role-- for 3 classes per side, is ok. I disagree.
IMO RvR sets should ALWAYS be the strongest equipment for their belonging level In RvR. PvE sets should still be a good alternative For RvR. (and sometimes have nice surprises, so players might want to take some pve items in their loadout for specific builds and tricks). That's my opinion and it might differ from the Teams.
Ruin is way faster to get than Merc or Anni anyway.
Couple hours of PQ and you're set.
If it's the best for your playstyle, just do it.
Should we get epic quest weapon from RvR too? Then ToK jewels?
You want "perfect" gear, make the effort to get it.
Not like the next tiers are coming soon to change it all and reset your time investment.
saupreusse wrote:First of all, this wasn't an attack on you - since it wasn't even you who came up with that idea. - I just wanted to get this straight before people start a useless discussion about it. My post was NOT referring to your primary point. - I'm sorry if it was not clear enough, I edited the quote box now that I am not on my tiny phone screen anymore.
Thanks for editing your initial post to make it clearer. To the bit I've underlined: I think that's what irritated me a bit, you quoted me and commented on something that I didn't suggest/wasn't my idea, but not what I actually did say. Even so, I think I jumped the gun a bit. Sorry about that.
saupreusse wrote:Regarding your "primary" point: While you are right that at this very state of the game, the best tank set is obtainable only through pve, that doesn't mean that it will be like that once we roll out the higher level equipment. Furthermore - and even more important,is the fact that Most things about the PQ sets havent been touched/balanced yet.
True. And as I said a couple of times, I'd only really care about this if it were the same with the later sets.
saupreusse wrote:IMO RvR sets should ALWAYS be the strongest equipment for their belonging level In RvR. PvE sets should still be a good alternative For RvR. (and sometimes have nice surprises, so players might want to take some pve items in their loadout for specific builds and tricks). That's my opinion and it might differ from the Teams.
This was generally my thinking as well, but as I said I don't personally have much of an opinion on it. I agree, in theory, that PvE sets should be a viable alternative, but it goes back to my initial post (emphasis added):
Zealote wrote:The only thing that I, personally, wouldn't like is if certain types of sets (off/def/heal etc), or the best of a certain type, can only be obtained through pve, as it is with tank sets atm.
The issue is obviously what counts as "viable", if you don't have different types in PvP/PvE (e.g. off tank set only from PvE). Unless you had mirrored sets (i.e. same stats but different names), you'd always be locked into doing one to get the best set. That's partly why I don't think I'd really care if it were possible to get the same from both (remembering the proviso I mentioned in an earlier post about preventing farming), since that's the way that'd best cater to both camps of people. That's just my opinion though; I'm aware there might be reasons against it.
..........
Spoiler:
Tomaka wrote:Ruin is way faster to get than Merc or Anni anyway.
Couple hours of PQ and you're set.
If it's the best for your playstyle, just do it.
Should we get epic quest weapon from RvR too? Then ToK jewels?
You want "perfect" gear, make the effort to get it.
Not like the next tiers are coming soon to change it all and reset your time investment.
Doesn't seem you've actually read my posts with the aim of understanding them, but there we go.
As I said to Morf, the ease or difficulty of acquisition is irrelevant. The point was what people think about the system itself (in terms of one set being PvE-only), and, in particular, my and others' opinions on it if the same situation were reproduced with later sets.
To your question about epic weapons and ToK unlock jewellery: I never suggested that in this thread, and it's an entirely separate discussion. If you look, you'll see that I was careful to refer only to "entire [armour] sets".
Finally, to your implication that it's just a case of my not wanting to put in any effort: I think the following fragment (from my 1st post in this thread) suggests otherwise:
Zealote wrote:I know not everyone thinks the same but I always would've preferred to be able to get all gear from pvp (even if it's hard/takes ages to get)
Even so, I think I jumped the gun a bit. Sorry about that.
