Changelog 23/08/16

[Bozzax]

for instance we tried running EC w/ a 3-2-1 engineer pull bomb group and well

The map itself is melee centric* that is the reason why you fail in it with that setup.

*It is dense and don't allow kite or using CC

[peterthepan3]

There is also a division between "6 mans"

You have guilds dedicated to it who have the meta setups necessary to compete at the highest level possible, for instance we tried running EC w/ a 3-2-1 engineer pull bomb group and well... it didn't work out to well against half decent groups running mara/chop melee trains. Thankfully we have the WL/Slayer answer.

You have ORvR focused guilds that put together mish mash 6 mans every once and while

And you have pick up group 6 mans from /5 /t4 whatever


While dedicated 6 man guilds are a small fraction of the population, it doesn't neccasarily mean that they are the only one who are or should be getting anything out of 6v6 competitive focused scenarios.

Putting systems in place to make 6v6 more smooth/accessible whatever you want to call it can benefit a large group of people. One way of doing this is by adding non deathmatch 6v6 maps with an even greater emphasis on objective based play (shattering the current meta by changing how 6v6 is played currently which is blob fighting). I parrot it a lot, but i think reikland factory would be a very good 6v6 objective based map. To win you can't blob, it breaks the meele train meta and forces 6 mans to come up with intereting comps and roles within the map such as having players dedicated to one objective, or roaming, or... you get the idea.

As long as 6v6 is viewed only as death match style play it is gong to alienate a lot of people from participating in it becuase of the strict meta that have evolved around it. Losing a DM style match is also much more punishing than losing an objective style based game mode which may further discourage people from participating in it.


Again not asking for DM to be gone or for objective based to become the defacto competitive mode... just saying that increasing the amount of game types for coordinated 6 man groups can open up that style of play to more people.

Playing objective based scenarios when you have virtually no communication with half your team is also quite frustrating at times and would be a refreshing change of pace.


Also increasing the amount of 6 man groups fighting each other rather than beating on pugs improves the gameplay for all people using the scenario system.

6v6 - 9 times out of 10 - will only ever refer to deathmatch-style games. It is what most people immediately think of. Objective-based stuff sounds cool as long as it is distinguished from regular 6v6, i.e. that which most people refer to.

Naturally when talking about 6v6 I refer to those premades whose main goal is to 6v6 other groups. You do indeed have 6-mans who run in RVR (Teefz, Svarz, etc) but will never prioritise 6v6/joining 6v6 scenarios as their preferred playstyle is, as you said, roaming in RvR as a 6man.

To be honest the 6v6 community is probably as large as it will ever be, and the chances of drawing in more people are slim given its niche status/most people preferring open world rvr. At the moment it is very hard to get a 6v6 organised (LoB seem to be the only order guild actively doing it atm, with enigma gone) which is why I'm sure devs are hesitant to put any more resources than they already have done into it (and rightly so).

tldr - if EC isn't going to have a wall, then i think most 6v6 groups would be happier just keeping CW as the current default 6v6 scen and scrapping EC as a 6v6 scen (maybe make it pug 6v6, could get some people interested).

In regards to EC not being good for ranged comps, it should be noted that it is a given ranged comps aren't as competitive as melee in 6v6 and this is a separate issue altogether from EC's viability as a map. Caledor Woods aleviates some of this, but ultimately if you find yourself up against a decent melee 2/2/2 you will spend a lot of your time near the guards/spawn.

That may have been the case originally Peter, though I do have a feeling that our small community has been picking fights, getting threads locked etc. Ryan's thread in particular was closed due to this.This might have had an effect in it being opened up to all players. #NotAll6mans

Just a thought.

Good point. It should be noted that a lot of the reasoning behind that thread being closed was down to elitist premade players arguing with eachother, but also because of people chiming in when they did not even partake in 6v6 yet felt the need to voice their opinions on the map. =P

[peterthepan3]

also funny you should mention engi because we actually came up against a decent WL/Engi combo in CW. engi seems to work well with an armor debuff (but that lack of heal debuff ultimately neuters it) =D

[Jaycub]

We try to play around the pull in 3-2-1, ORvR and 12v12+ scenarios it's pretty self explanatory and proven to be good. But in 6v6 it's turns into a gimmick where you get that sweet full party pull into wipe once then their healers smarten up to it and you never pull that off again.

bring back unnerfed rift/magnet and maybe it can work :^)

In regards to EC not being good for ranged comps, it should be noted that it is a given ranged comps aren't as competitive as melee in 6v6 and this is a separate issue altogether from EC's viability as a map. Caledor Woods aleviates some of this, but ultimately if you find yourself up against a decent melee 2/2/2 you will spend a lot of your time near the guards/spawn.

This is why open new types of organized 6v6 play would be beneficial to a lot of people. Ideally 1 6v6 DM map and 1 6v6 Objective map per rotation. So those who have non melee train setups can still compete in a structured/controlled environment instead of PUG chaos. I do get extremely bored of playing WL sometimes, and would be nice to take a break and play something fresh but at the same time feel competitive in doing so. I have a pretty good feeling that RDPS and niche things like DPS AM/Shaman could find a good place in certain strats in objective based scenarios.

[peterthepan3]

We try to play around the pull in 3-2-1, ORvR and 12v12+ scenarios it's pretty self explanatory and proven to be good. But in 6v6 it's turns into a gimmick where you get that sweet full party pull into wipe once then their healers smarten up to it and you never pull that off again.

bring back unnerfed rift/magnet and maybe it can work :^)

Haha dude sounds fun. Like you said, though, it's one of those things you can pull off once before the enemy wisens up

[Genisaurus]

will this scenario rotation require a server reboot ?

It will not.

[Xunleashed]

Opinion on the current 6v6 meta apart, which is currently very boring if not horrible to play as/against, yesterday we had some EC SC pops and half of them ended with ppl punted down in the black void, unable to do anything.

We also lost a match againt another guild premade (I only remember the choppa name "Frandito") after easly winning 2 fights , because they were able to knock our tank off the map.

I wonder if there is something I am missing, or why a bugged/broken SC like EC has been added to the rotation.

[RyanMakara]

I wonder if there is something I am missing, or why a bugged/broken SC like EC has been added to the rotation.

Alpha phase. Players are testers. Getting feedback on the temporary fix implemented is important. My wall solution was lazy and apparently half-assed as I forgot the sides. Thus, Londo is going to implement another mechanic for it. The SC will only last for a week in this rotation. We're currently testing it for 6 v 6/partial pug queues, but with a new mechanic it may even become more appropriate for 12v12, as some people would like to see it.

[Danielle]

I wonder if there is something I am missing, or why a bugged/broken SC like EC has been added to the rotation.

Alpha phase. Players are testers. Getting feedback on the temporary fix implemented is important. My wall solution was lazy and apparently half-assed as I forgot the sides.

Hey, it is still 100x better than having the scenario in its' awful original form! So thanks for doing it.

I am curious as to what original fix Londo can come up with.

[Azarael]

EC has been swapped for CW, which has also been made permanently available.