Update 16/09/16

[Miszczu5647]

After one evening with those changes I must say that this is greatest patch since the beginning of T4.
Most epic moment was when one guy complain after Etaine lock that he get only 300 r for lock. And it's not worthy to compete now He didn't read the patch note obviously.
I am eager to see next changes to RvR campaign because it starts to look very very good.

Thx to Devs Team

[Grumpbot]

How does Loser Rewards rub people the wrong way? That is specifically what people want! And incentive to STAY on the losing realm/side and keep fighting rather than Xrealm for the easy Win...

Equal rewards would be asinine. Wtf is the point of being successful if getting rolled gives similar rewards?!

Imo, Losing rewards should scale based upon your AAO.
.

I've run into a lot of people (not necessarily in this community, just in general) that oppose the idea of loser rewards. These are the people who complain about participation trophies, etc.

Regarding equal rewards, keep in mind that I specified equal *progression* rewards and suggested that winners (and only) winners would get cool cosmetic rewards. The point of being successful is twofold: the satisfaction of winning and getting pimp armor skins/mount skins/vanity pets/titles etc.

I dislike the idea of losing rewards scaling based on AAO because AAO is actually a really bad measure of balance in T4 specifically. It would likely work fine for t1-t3, but in T4 a fresh 32 is just sooooo much worse than a fully geared and ranked 40. So it's entirely possible for the sides to be numerically even but one side to actually have a HUGE passive advantage just based on gear and RR. This kind of thing gets exacerbated if one side wins most of the time and losing progression rewards aren't equal, because the winning side will gear and rank up faster. Thus an average player on the usual winning side will become more and more valuable relative to the average player on the usual losing side, making AAO a worse and worse measure.

[Specialpatrol]

In the end, artillery will be used to break sieges. The way artillery handles in warcamps and in scenarios is exactly how it's meant to handle in RvR. It's designed to punish huge mass attacks and hiding in your keep without contesting the maps, and it will be towed, as you said (this was the reason tow was implemented).

That's part of the final implementation though. I'm looking at a temporary implementation with two aspects to it, and the second aspect could be as simple as causing existing artillery cannons to use the future RvR handling (rationalized as "improved ammunition" or something) if a realm controls all 4 BOs for a certain period of time and the enemy force has fielded at least X% as many players as your own within the last 15 minutes. This would result in funnel attempts being blown to **** by artillery from outside the walls.

Just so I understand this correctly: Are you basically saying that the underdog side will eventually loose more or less every time? And if so, how would this help break the issues with one side (i.e. the winning one) perpertually dominating the other?

[navis]

[RvR]

Yes, I'm aware that keeps are too hard to take, and I will be issuing another patch either this evening or tomorrow to address this issue in a more complex way.

I don't think they are overly hard, atm. A pretty good example here tonight, order getting completely dominated as the defense really has no chance against 3:1 type odds. All the recent stuff for siege has been a really great addition.
If it means better rewards from Objectives without the need to cap the zone, then that will be niiice.

[Twyxx]

Thanx:>

[dur3al]

Quick Escape.

It'll reduce the massive the amount of rdps being the most commonly pug chosen class.
Less rdps, less "keep defense farm" and more open field battle royal.

Logic is undeniable !

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

How does Loser Rewards rub people the wrong way? That is specifically what people want! And incentive to STAY on the losing realm/side and keep fighting rather than Xrealm for the easy Win...

Equal rewards would be asinine. Wtf is the point of being successful if getting rolled gives similar rewards?!

Imo, Losing rewards should scale based upon your AAO.
.

I've run into a lot of people (not necessarily in this community, just in general) that oppose the idea of loser rewards. These are the people who complain about participation trophies, etc.

Regarding equal rewards, keep in mind that I specified equal *progression* rewards and suggested that winners (and only) winners would get cool cosmetic rewards. The point of being successful is twofold: the satisfaction of winning and getting pimp armor skins/mount skins/vanity pets/titles etc.

I dislike the idea of losing rewards scaling based on AAO because AAO is actually a really bad measure of balance in T4 specifically. It would likely work fine for t1-t3, but in T4 a fresh 32 is just sooooo much worse than a fully geared and ranked 40. So it's entirely possible for the sides to be numerically even but one side to actually have a HUGE passive advantage just based on gear and RR. This kind of thing gets exacerbated if one side wins most of the time and losing progression rewards aren't equal, because the winning side will gear and rank up faster. Thus an average player on the usual winning side will become more and more valuable relative to the average player on the usual losing side, making AAO a worse and worse measure.

Well. To the main point, other games and communities have their own particular set of Variables. We, here at RoR, have ours.

The idea of Cosmetic's as a carrot has been tossed around a bunch. I think that a lot of skins and cool stuff is being "saved" to be used on some really cool later items. Also, that kinda **** takes time and effort. And most people want actual statistical progression.

Fair point on the AAO. It could be a "bad" measure. It is however the current system that we have to increase the "gains" made by the lower side. Your point stands at AAO It's self more than my point I think, but I could be wrong.

So, TW went Lake Diving tonight. Got everyone on around 6pm PST with only Dwarf left, and all things considered, had a great time! Pop fluctuated drastically order-destro and back. Honestly? I can't tell anymore if it is Xrealming, or just people hanging out in the WC. We all felt like we should of had massive AAO at times, or been giving AAO and seen none. Then, shoots up to 160%... Perception can be kinda skewed at times, especially without the ability to see numbers logged in.

The gains on BOs is awesome in an extended fight. Consistant ticks from every BO you had taken(dunno if that is standard or requires fighting, we where fighting pretty much everywhere) and had some good fights! Incentivising BO takes is a good carrot imo. Soldier medallions is a great balancer. Was wondering though, I get 2 RR ticks from BOs, 1 large and 1 about half the size, I think this is the BO it's self +combat bonus?

Order/Destro are kinda funny. We both love to complain about exactly what we do in a similar situation. Sitting in a defensive position, waiting for the enemy to come to us and be slaughtered. But what happens when the enemy says, "Nope. I'm gonna roam, gank, and BO hunt"? We get things like one side sitting inside their keep while those that control the BOs have AAO. I think the players/guilds will sort it out. More of a roaming/ambush style of gameplay will emerge, at least in the NA time zone. At least I hope so... Getting any sort of an open field fight, that isn't being run the **** over by a lag-zerg, is ridiculously rare.

TLDR: I like the changes to ORvR. I think it enables more roaming style battles than previously. I see this as a benefit to the NA times. We now have a way to consistently gain RR/INF while counter-roaming without being farmed at the keep. It requires Combat I am sure, I have no idea what kind of gains one gets for empty zones.

[porkstar]

I would suggest you have the wrong end of the stick, its basically an impetus to take BOs and get people moving in the zone again, currently its not hard to take BOs from the stronger side but no one does it because everyone moves as one which is crap and wasnt how it was on live (as much). You will now get keep rolls away from the keep so you can contribute to the war without watching a door go down and there are other things being worked on.

We put in a roadblock/realm assist in the form of Keep lords that do something (and I have tweaked further) as opposed to falling over when 5 people look at it and now the war is no longer over once the inner door falls as before you could literally push past the defenders and kill the lord in seconds. Its not there to wipe the opposition for you, its there to augment the realm and people still havent begun to deconstruct the event.

We dont intend to give the zerg free reign but conversely bottlenecks/turtles are not conducive to the wider war.

I don't necessarily agree that BOs are easy to take with a great amount of AAO. A well coordinated group is currently the only thing that can possibly keep the zerg from re-taking the BO. A lot of AAO hunters won't coordinate in groups of more than six because the rewards aren't juicy enough. Certainly configuring a group to try and "bunker" at BOs isn't currently justified by the reward system either. You guys have done so much great work thus far and I think you're on the right track. Rewards are the best way to guide behavior.

[Mexlicious]

Azarael have you considered VP flips? Imo those were the best warhammer days you actually needed strategy and team work not just Zerg on Zerg,

[Bozzax]

[RvR]
- Zone lock rewards have been modified to be lower and contribution-based. Because they are contribution-based, zone locks will now give medallions.

Would it be possible to add rewards as well for players contributed but wasn't present during the actual lock? (logged to RL or zoned)

I guess I raise the question because they have actually earned it but for whatever reason missed it. I also think the lock chasing mentality will be weakened and casuals would benefit from it. Sort of like that

No biggy though...