Warbands

[Theseus]

I was in this WB by the while. There was not impossible to stick together because your main forces come to Caledor from DW and you waiting on western BOs and rest people were cloosed in WC because on the bridge was Tinkerbell premade with any other destro. You should put this people in to one group so maybe we will have any cheance to fight but you didn't.

Two remarks on that point.

1. That was so at the beginning of things, yes. Later on we moved to shrine and took them out.
2. A short call would have helped. You see, a warband leader is only as good as his informations. So if you have crucial information, just relay them via pn or region chat to the wb leaders, raid leaders or to whoever takes comand. Such communication is a big help to everyone.

[Thelen]

I lead a warband only occasionally but I feel I've gotten the hang of the "secret". Kick people ruthlessly. Give them 3-4 mins warning that you will kick if they aren't where you've told them to be. Then kick. If they rejoin kick them again if they still aren't there. Very quickly the WB will fill with players that want structure and are interested in following orders. I've almost never had people not comply. It really helps if you can fill out the first group of the WB with alliance or trusted players.

Once you get this rolling and give members constant updates on where they are headed (its not spamming when you are the WB leader "HEADED TO KRUK" spammed 3 times in a row usually gets the message accross) people WILL comply. All this will last until you wipe hard, then half the warband will leave, but thats basically the best you can get from a full PUG warband.

What we used to do with our Alliance on PT/Badlands is make 1 or 2 warbands with at least 1 or 2 full groups each of just alliance members. This gives the "PUG WB" a strong backbone of an organized group of coms and also integrates the pugs. PUG players generally follow the people around them, so if your organized group charges in, they'll likely follow right alongside rather than retreat. This also breeds trust between the PUG player community and your guild/alliance, which has great benefits when it comes to communication.

[Theseus]

I lead a warband only occasionally but I feel I've gotten the hang of the "secret". Kick people ruthlessly. Give them 3-4 mins warning that you will kick if they aren't where you've told them to be. Then kick. If they rejoin kick them again if they still aren't there. Very quickly the WB will fill with players that want structure and are interested in following orders. I've almost never had people not comply. It really helps if you can fill out the first group of the WB with alliance or trusted players.

Once you get this rolling and give members constant updates on where they are headed (its not spamming when you are the WB leader "HEADED TO KRUK" spammed 3 times in a row usually gets the message accross) people WILL comply. All this will last until you wipe hard, then half the warband will leave, but thats basically the best you can get from a full PUG warband.

What we used to do with our Alliance on PT/Badlands is make 1 or 2 warbands with at least 1 or 2 full groups each of just alliance members. This gives the "PUG WB" a strong backbone of an organized group of coms and also integrates the pugs. PUG players generally follow the people around them, so if your organized group charges in, they'll likely follow right alongside rather than retreat. This also breeds trust between the PUG player community and your guild/alliance, which has great benefits when it comes to communication.

You see, thats the thing I dont, get. We made it the same way on Drakenwald. We had sometimes about 14 WB of order and 14 wb of destro, so about 5 times the people we get here on good days. But there it worked almost every time. The people stood where the had to, even those who had noch alliance members in it. So why doesnt it work here... we got old veterans around, and nobody can tell me that the newbies are more stupid than the people on live... that would be insulting and it wouldnt be beliefable.

[Bluestreak2k5]

I kick anyone not listening and I am even quicker about it when we are losing as Destruction. I don't tolerate losing especially from something as simple as communication. If your not going to communicate, if your not going to work as group I will kick you relatively quickly from any of my PUG warbands.

One of things you have to understand as a PUG WB leader is your group is going to be relatively poorly equipped. I would say 50% of the PUG is going to be wearing T3 and T2 armor still even at level 40. This is one of the reasons I do not mind doing PVDoor as much as we do in Destro because most people are terribly equipped. This directly affects the moral and one of the reasons that both Destro and Order run when a large force comes crashing down on them because most people cannot fight very long in a long fight (although Ironically I think destro runs more often). If you doubt this you should spend some time examining most of the players in the WB when your sitting at BO's.

The way I treat my warbands and the coordination of other WB's is what is going to equip our destro players better while giving Order players the least amount of reward. Bad communication/teamwork will leads to deaths and keep losses, which lead to better geared enemy.

Character in game: Bluestreak:Magus

[Theseus]

I kick anyone not listening and I am even quicker about it when we are losing as Destruction. I don't tolerate losing especially from something as simple as communication. If your not going to communicate, if your not going to work as group I will kick you relatively quickly from any of my PUG warbands.

One of things you have to understand as a PUG WB leader is your group is going to be relatively poorly equipped. I would say 50% of the PUG is going to be wearing T3 and T2 armor still even at level 40. This is one of the reasons I do not mind doing PVDoor as much as we do in Destro because most people are terribly equipped. This directly affects the moral and one of the reasons that both Destro and Order run when a large force comes crashing down on them because most people cannot fight very long in a long fight (although Ironically I think destro runs more often). If you doubt this you should spend some time examining most of the players in the WB when your sitting at BO's.

The way I treat my warbands and the coordination of other WB's is what is going to equip our destro players better while giving Order players the least amount of reward. Bad communication/teamwork will leads to deaths and keep losses, which lead to better geared enemy.

Character in game: Bluestreak:Magus

I would say order runs more often, but I think we both are biased there, as we just remember those ocasions more as the ones ore advesaries ran. And dont get me wrong, I dont mind loosing, we held our ground that day. That is not the point. The point is, that we could have won if people in my wb and other would have listened. The leaders of the other two wb listened to my input and tried to get their peeps to do what I said but couldnt, so its not really an issue of poor equipment, if we do the drills perfect and die because destro is just stronger, I am the last to complain. But the fact was the people, even as there were just about merely 3 wb didnt respond or responded very slow. That shouldnt happen. Thats the whole point i am trying to get across since 4 or 5 posts.

[Bluestreak2k5]

I would say order runs more often, but I think we both are biased there, as we just remember those ocasions more as the ones ore advesaries ran. And dont get me wrong, I dont mind loosing, we held our ground that day. That is not the point. The point is, that we could have won if people in my wb and other would have listened. The leaders of the other two wb listened to my input and tried to get their peeps to do what I said but couldnt, so its not really an issue of poor equipment, if we do the drills perfect and die because destro is just stronger, I am the last to complain. But the fact was the people, even as there were just about merely 3 wb didnt respond or responded very slow. That shouldnt happen. Thats the whole point i am trying to get across since 4 or 5 posts.

Like I said just boot the ones that don't listen. When things are getting serious as in keep attacks, etc I say in warband chat multiple times that you will get booted for not listening. Once you start booting people aggressively, others either get in line or will quit pvping because they can't get into warbands.

I am more lenient on when it's just a flag war going on or when things are not as important.

If your serious about being a WB leader often then people will begin to recognize you for it and know what to expect. Most of our WB leaders including me are pretty strict on this.

1. I boot immediately anyone that queues for SCs while in warband, I hate seeing the chat spammed with "you attempted to queue for X". They clearly aren't very interested anyway.
2. I boot anyone immediately who I see that is in a SC while also in the WB. They aren't there and we usually have lots of people willing to take their spot.
3. Anyone I see sitting in the warcamp(or way outside the WB) I either PM directly or I put out a message in WB chat that you will be booted from the WB in 30 sec to 1 min if your still "distant" from the warband. This is trickier due to map bugs, which is why there is the time delay. If they can't say something in chat or respond, they aren't reading chat anyway and not useful.
4. I usually boot anyone that is in another city immediately if things are important like the middle of a keep defense/attack. If we just finished locking a zone or something, there is clearly some room for going to get new gear etc.

If you can get 2 or 3 WB operating in that fashion, then you just need to tackle the final and most difficult part... which warband leader calls the shots? Who is the leader of the leaders?

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

The hardest part about leading successfully is predicting where your players who don't, cant or will not listen will be and working in conjuction with them. If you make sound, swift calls while keeping your realm updated on your intentions and progress people will tend to cooperate and migrate to where the fight and/or rewards are dependent upon the situation at hand. Just keep in mind that while leading, anything you say will be taken as a suggestion which will be followed, simply noticed or flat out ignored. Expect people to criticize you, ridicule your calls you make and blame you personally when you don't win, regardless of whether or not it's your fault for a bad call, the enemy making a good call or the inevitable crash/bug that results in a wipe.

[Theseus]

The hardest part about leading successfully is predicting where your players who don't, cant or will not listen will be and working in conjuction with them. If you make sound, swift calls while keeping your realm updated on your intentions and progress people will tend to cooperate and migrate to where the fight and/or rewards are dependent upon the situation at hand. Just keep in mind that while leading, anything you say will be taken as a suggestion which will be followed, simply noticed or flat out ignored. Expect people to criticize you, ridicule your calls you make and blame you personally when you don't win, regardless of whether or not it's your fault for a bad call, the enemy making a good call or the inevitable crash/bug that results in a wipe.

To the part of critizising me. Thats not really an issue. I do make mistakes, I cerainly know that. I have no problem with constructive criticism. But if I am made leader I just expect people to obey as long as they want me to lead. And yes I of cause will send people to places where is no fighting if a BO has to be defended. And I do not care about their renown and medalions, because we will get more if we take the keep as if we lose, while fighting pointless battle that evolve from unprotected BOs.

[Dabbart]

So... TLDR would be, leading PUGs feels almost like your in a PUG group?

Best thing you can do. don't make the WB open! Tell ppl to PM for an inv, so you will get less randoms, and a higher likelihood that everyone speaks the same language. Can't get mad someone who only speaks Russian for not listening to orders in English...

It'll take time, but keep forming and you will find those that do listen or are willing to organize Xgroup. So tall to people and out em in your friends list if they are decent. Don't feel like you HAVE to have a full 24. You'd be infinitely better with 12 that listen/follow.

Last point, not saying op or anyone specific, but you see it all the time. WB leaders raging constantly. Yes it sucks that people ignore you, however getting upset won't solve anything. It will simply make it worse. Your better off just saying "ok, that's all I can do tonight, GL crew!" and leaving then getting pissed and yelling at people. Imo anyways.

GL!

[Azarael]

The hardest part about leading successfully is predicting where your players who don't, cant or will not listen will be and working in conjuction with them. If you make sound, swift calls while keeping your realm updated on your intentions and progress people will tend to cooperate and migrate to where the fight and/or rewards are dependent upon the situation at hand. Just keep in mind that while leading, anything you say will be taken as a suggestion which will be followed, simply noticed or flat out ignored. Expect people to criticize you, ridicule your calls you make and blame you personally when you don't win, regardless of whether or not it's your fault for a bad call, the enemy making a good call or the inevitable crash/bug that results in a wipe.

I wish I had understood this 10 years ago.